Why I feel so abysmally let down by the "Ravnica" news...

[Cyber-Dave]

I want to be very clear: Ravnica is a damn cool setting. The more I look up information about the setting, the more I think to myself, "huh... that would be a pretty cool environment to DM." I'm probably going to buy the setting and give it a whirl. The D&D team has earned a LOT of credit from me in terms of my good-will. Ravnica is brand new, at least to the D&D-verse. It is not a generic fantasy setting. It has interesting and new takes on previous ideas. Nevertheless, I feel let down, and this announcement has cost me some of my good-will towards the brand. Obviously, a lot of other players feel the same way. The question, then, is why.

It's simple. We were led to believe that the offerings on the table would appeal to "longtime D&D fans." Ravnica does bear a lot of similarity to something that longtime D&D fans would love: Planescape and the city of Sigil. It isn't, however, Sigil. In fact, its existence forces one to ask, "where is the design space for Sigil now that Ravnica is being released?" It seems to me that the existence of Ravnica makes an official Planescape product less likely, as so many of the concepts that would have been covered in a Planescape product are now being covered by Ravnica. It's like WotC spent months building up the idea of Curse of Strahd and instead gave us Curse of Innistrad. It would probably still be a cool product, but it would be a huge let down compared to Curse of Strahd. In many ways, this move feels less geared towards the interests of D&D's rich intellectual property and more geared towards the interests of WotC's overlord, Hasbro.

Now, I understand that sometimes WotC will have to appeal to said overlord. They are in this for the business. Why, however, spend so much time making us believe that longtime D&D fans would love the news only to give us a Magic the Gathering Plane and D&D's newest and least multiverse connected setting: Eberron. I say that as someone who LOVES Eberron and is willing to give Ravnica an honest try! I'll purchase Ravnica just like I have purchased almost everything else (and am trying to purchase, over time, that which I have not already come to own). I have already purchased the Wayfarer's Guide to Eberron. All in all, however, my expectations were horribly managed this time around.

If WotC had said, "we are going to try and create something brand new and surprising to appeal to new players--it will bear some correlations with content that longtime fans love, but we will also cross-pollinate between WotC's various intellectual properties," I would not have been disappointed. If WotC had said, "we will also be bringing back one of D&Ds newest and most popular settings," I would not have been disappointed. You tell me that you are creating something for longtime fans, though, and you better not be giving me Ravnica and Eberron. At that point in time, I expect Planescape, Spelljammer, Birthright, Dark Sun, or whatever. I just feel... mislead. I don't like it.

 

[Mouseferatu]

That's because you've taken secondhand information and fan speculation as being what WotC actually said. It's not.

First, they said "hardcore" fans, not "long-term."

Second, the "two surprises" that hardcore fans would love were not said to be the same thing as the two campaign settings that were planned.

See this post here, where [MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION] assembled the actual interview quotes:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...nouncements)&p=7468133&viewfull=1#post7468133

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Didn't Sigil blow up, at the end of 2E? I thought there was a Faction War that basically did to Planescape, what 4E did to Forgotten Realms.

 

[Staccat0]

Literally any D&D book is more Planescape content.

 

[Cyber-Dave]

It really doesn't matter, Mouseferatu. When studying literature and other aesthetic fields, there are a couple general rules of thumb that apply here: what the designers intended is irrelevant compared to how an audience has actually received a text; if enough of an audience happens to share an aesthetic response to any given text, that response is a valid response (even if it is not the only possible response or even primary response). I'm not the only person who felt mislead. I didn't take second hand information. I read what WotC actually said. I listened to their interviews. The fact that I misremembered "hardcore" as "long-term" is besides the point. One term is likely to give similar impressions to the other. Expectations were horribly mismanaged this time around. I have yet to see ANY product announcement generate as much discontent as this one did. The irony is that I am willing to bet I am going to love the Ravnica product once I buy it (and I do quite enjoy the Eberron product, even if some of the races need some major balance tweaks). It's just hard to stomach Ravnica instead of literally any other setting given the feedback that the company had with its audience leading up to the announcement. That feedback should have been managed more effectively.

 

[AmerginLiath]

I’m curious how The Death of The Author works in a field of work with both resurrection and necromantic magic.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

When studying literature and other aesthetic fields, there are a couple general rules of thumb that apply here: what the designers intended is irrelevant compared to how an audience has actually received a text; if enough of an audience happens to share an aesthetic response to any given text, that response is a valid response (even if it is not the only possible response or even primary response).

The intent of the creator may be drowned out, but it is never irrelevant. It is entirely possible tha the masses in the audience- no matter their percentage or the strength of their belief- may simply be wrong.

 

[Umbran]

The intent of the creator may be drowned out, but it is never irrelevant.

If a cook said they were going to give you an expensive beef Wellington, and you paid for an expensive beef Wellington, and you received what looks and tastes to you like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, is the cook's intent to give you Wellington relevant to your experience? If the cook cannot tell the difference between cow and peanut, their opinion about their work is going to be woefully misinformed to the point of being useless, no?

Thus: if the author is so bad at communicating their intent that their message gets drowned out, then I submit that their intent is largely irrelevant.

 

[Guest 6801328]

It really doesn't matter, Mouseferatu. When studying literature and other aesthetic fields, there are a couple general rules of thumb that apply here: what the designers intended is irrelevant compared to how an audience has actually received a text; if enough of an audience happens to share an aesthetic response to any given text, that response is a valid response (even if it is not the only possible response or even primary response). I'm not the only person who felt mislead. I didn't take second hand information. I read what WotC actually said. I listened to their interviews. The fact that I misremembered "hardcore" as "long-term" is besides the point. One term is likely to give similar impressions to the other. Expectations were horribly mismanaged this time around. I have yet to see ANY product announcement generate as much discontent as this one did. The irony is that, I am willing to bet I am going to love the Ravnica product once I buy it (and I do quite enjoy the Eberron product, even if some of the races need some major balance tweaks). It's just hard to stomach Ravnica instead of literally any other setting given the feedback that the company had with its audience leading up to the announcement. That feedback should have been managed more effectively.

I dunno. I think the problem is more that the kind of fans who spend time posting on forums like this are far too likely to dissect press releases and develop completely unsupported interpretations and therefore unrealistic expectations. I don't buy your argument about literature and valid responses in this context (truth be told I don't really buy it, for the most part, vis a vis literature, either.)

Oh, well. This happens with every announcement and product. Like, literally, every single one. A bunch of people are up in arms that WotC broke their promises.

Some of the products I think are pretty cool, some I pass on because I was hoping for something else, but never do I react with "OMG THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY PROMISED!!!".

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Re: Wellington

I’d say it still matters. If the chef in question was the culinary equivalent of Mark Kostabi*, you may THINK you were paying for a genuine Wellington, but you are going to get what all of his customers get- something that is NOT what your waitperson put on the ticket. You’re going to get the “Chef Kostabi Experience”, and if that isn’t what you wanted, that’s on you.

If the chef was merely incompetent or “culinarily aphasic”, he still intended to give you what you wanted. The person who put them in position to disappoint you, OTOH, deserves your ire. (Neither “chef” belongs in a kitchen, though- both are health hazards who also risk violating people’s religious or adopted culinary restrictions as well.)

But that just gets us into the territory of being bad at what you’ve chosen to do and being unaware of your incompetence. It does not nullify your intent.

I will concede that, absent true AI, a robochef a la X Files: Rm9sbG93ZXJz probably has no intent to speak of.

Re: your conclusion

There are many creative pieces- some masterpieces, even- whose true meaning is openly debated**, even centuries later. Just because you or I or millions cannot discern the meaning doesn’t mean the communication was bad. You or I or the millions may not be the intended audience, so our understanding is irrelevant to the creator.



* MK rose to prominence in the 1990s when he openly used a system akin to Andy Warhol’s using art students to produce parts or even entire canvases to which his name was affixed. Eventually, even his signature was done by an employee. What you got for your $10k+ was performance art- MK berating you as an idiot and a moron for buying “an original Kostabi” which was essentially nothing but a complete forgery. The thing hanging on your wall, then, was merely a reminder of the performance.

** the smile on Da Vinci’s Mona Lisa; Mark Rothko’s Black series; James Joyce’s Finnegan’s Wake; John Cage’s 4’33”; the pictographs and petroglyphs of lost or forgotten human cultures.