Why I feel so abysmally let down by the "Ravnica" news...

[pming]

Hiya.

Ok, when I used the term "Steampunk" I was referring to the general feel/asthetic and idea of "...it's kinda like technology, but with magic...". Iron Kingdoms isn't "Steampunk" by some folks definition here, because, well, there isn't really much "steam technology". Everything powered is done via magic and magic runes that will typically be described as housing some sort of 'demi-elemental' that, when combined with some combustible material for it, produce energy that is then harnessed/used to do whatever (be it a 'jackhammer', or a 'steamjack', or anything else). The settings "feel" is dark, gloomy, with the sounds of clanking metal, screaching pistons, and whiring gears isn't out of place. People dress in a certain way (victorion'esqe I'd say), and so the whole 'steampunk' vibe comes through. I guess "crude, loud, dirty tech" is what I'm getting at.

I was going for "Steampunk" in the way it looks. A lot of things look "steampunk'ish" to me in Eberron. Not all, but enough that it makes an impact. If I want something with "trains" or "airships", and "walking constructs", I'll play IK. When I see pics of a lightning train in Eberron, I don't picture it arriving at the station and the station smelling, sounding and looking like a mag-lev train from Japan...I picture it smelling, sounding, and looking like a coal-powered iron-horse arriving during a dark and rainy night, at a station smelling of soot, oil and hot metal, and the air filled with the sounds of scraping metal against metal and the high-pitched crackle-and-pop of electricity from a jacobs ladder. In other words..."steampunkish".

I'm sure that if someone really knew their Eberron and I could play in their game, I might fully enjoy Eberron's differences. But I'm mostly (always) the DM. I prefer it to playing, but like to play every once and a while to 'take a break and recharge'. And I'm just not up to learning yet another D&D setting...at least not one that I see as having a very similar "window dressing". Hence...I'll stick with IK.

Ravnica? Just not interested. If someone tells me of some inventive awesomeness it has for determining "all the city stuff" on-the-fly while DM'ing it (e.g., a city block's worth of buildings, streets, alleyways, purpose, people, etc) that is at least as good as Vornheim...then maybe I'll look into it. Otherwise I'll pass.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Tony Vargas]

Hiya.

Ok, when I used the term "Steampunk" I was referring to the general feel/asthetic and idea of "...it's kinda like technology, but with magic...".

Yeah, that's OK. Castle Falkenstien really hit that vibe when steampunk was still pretty new. But a lot of steampunk has no magic at all...
... I suppose you could sub-divide out 'Victorian Fantasy' that has more magic & fey elements and the like, an intersection with Urban Fantasy...

I was going for "Steampunk" in the way it looks. A lot of things look "steampunk'ish" to me in Eberron. Not all, but enough that it makes an impact. If I want something with "trains" or "airships", and "walking constructs",

Understandable the Eberron vibe of magic filling the place of technology (as opposed to 'sufficiently advanced' technology taking the place of magic) is a legitimate one and had certainly been done in the past. IDK if it has a 'genre' label associated with it, though...

 

[Mercurius]

Crikey. Steampunk doesn't involve a narrow list of parameters, things that a book or game "must" or "must not" have in order to qualify. It is an aesthetic that is inspired by Victorian culture. Don't get too hung up on the word "steam" or specific elements of Victorian culture. As with any genre, there is a range, a spectrum.

Anyhow, back to Ravnica, disappointment, etc. Like Cyber Dave, I was hoping for a multiverse book. But I was also hoping for a new setting, which we got, but the difference is that I wasn't expecting it. I was half-expecting a multiverse, but was thinking it wouldn't be until 2019. That still may come to pass, so there is no missed expectation. So the reason I'm not disappointed, even though CD and I wanted the same thing in a multiverse book, is A) I wanted a new setting even more, but didn't expect it at all so it was a pleasant surprise, and B) I wasn't expecting a multiverse book this year.

And that's it: expectation is where we run into trouble. I listened to an NPR show a few years ago in which a psychologist said that the secret to happiness was having low or no expectations. Then everything is a surprise, a bonus if you will.

 

[Kobold Boots]

I suspect that all of this angst will go away once people buy Ravnica, realize it's a great product and do whatever they will to make it suit their needs.

Sometimes longing for the past results in reliving mistakes of the past. Moving forward only happens by being different from what people either want, or think they want.

Self-reporting bias: I'm rather old school and didn't see much of a point for a full setting around spelljamming, planescape or even eberron (the coolest of the three by far) that I couldn't do better for my purposes. I have however been curious about M:tG lore since the first set of cards came out because of the illusion of depth, so I'm looking forward to this.

I expect others are too.

 

[Mistwell]

Counter-point. When asked this question on a Reddit AMA:

"On a scale of 1 to 10, just how steampunk did you intend for Eberron to come across?"

Keith Baker answered:

"Actually, the original pitch for Eberron specifically called out that it WASN'T like, say, Arcanum. Steampunk fantasy often plays to a clash between technology and magic, whereas in Eberron the idea was always that magic was being used to solve the same problems we solved with technology. We don't have firearms because we have wands and enchanted bows. Warforged aren't robots, they're magical golems. The biggest steam-punky element is obviously the lightning rail, but it's still supposed to be a fundamentally magical thing... this is a way to deal with mass transit using low-level magic. So to answer the question, I'd probably say 4? 5? Not SUPER steampunk, but obviously the warforged, airships and lightning rail will always have some of that."

And further down:

"Eberron isn't entirely steampunk; guns aren't a default part of the setting, for example. "

 

[cmad1977]

I’m a long term/hard core D&D player. This appeals to me.

 

[Jester David]

I suspect that all of this angst will go away once people buy Ravnica, realize it's a great product and do whatever they will to make it suit their needs.

It's not that I don't think it'll be a book of good quality with useful content. It's just that it's coming in place of a familiar setting, which would be of similar quality with comparable content.

The thing is, I already have warforged in my campaign setting. And thri-kreen. Getting those settings will let me use more of my world.

The options in Ravnica aren't expected. They make more work for me as a DM to integrate into my homebrew. It's inherently less useful and is coming in the place of more desired content, which is not unlikely to be seen in stores. And means settings I do know and like fade away and become that little bit more obscure.

 

[Reynard]

The options in Ravnica aren't expected. They make more work for me as a DM to integrate into my homebrew..

That being the case, don't you think that means such options are likely to be more beneficial for your homebrew in the long run? Doesn't having to think outside your comfort zone and preferred tropes provide more creative fodder, not less? Isn't the process of trying to accomodate unexpected elements a net gain, creatively?

 

[Kobold Boots]

It's not that I don't think it'll be a book of good quality with useful content. It's just that it's coming in place of a familiar setting, which would be of similar quality with comparable content.

The thing is, I already have warforged in my campaign setting. And thri-kreen. Getting those settings will let me use more of my world.

.

I don't know that I'd see it the same way were I in your position but I understand where you're coming from. My worldview would look at it as, "I don't have stats for a 5e Warforged, but I know enough of them from previous editions to homebrew my own stuff in support of them. Getting a new setting allows me to add more things to my world that I don't have now, and where that allows for continuous improvement of my game that's a good thing."

Respect your opinion though, it's obviously what's right for your game and where it's at presently.

 

[Umbran]

Thus: if the author is so bad at communicating their intent that their message gets drowned out, then I submit that their intent is largely irrelevant.

I will add the trivial case....

If the audience is so bad at comprehending thoughts outside their own head that they drown out the author's message, then I submit that the author's intent is irrelevant, because they just... won't... get it.

(This addition inspired by a barbarian who made me a chicken parm sub without tomato sauce. I kid you not.)