Why is Eberron being pushed so hard?

[s/LaSH]

Why push Eberron? I'm beginning to see people coming up with a good reason:

Because Eberron was built to work, and to use everything.

Unlike the Realms, Eberron is supposed to be consistent. Unlike Greyhawk, its consistency demands the inclusion of up-to-the-minute minutae of the 3e ruleset and other crunch. It's a better investment because it's a better design (learning lessons from the past) and it can incorporate all the weird stuff out there. (In part, because it's new and nobody's quite sure what it is yet - if it sprouts an extra arm overnight, people will be all 'hey, how many arms did it have last night? Oh. Maybe we just missed one.')

Now, imagine I'm Johnny Playstation, someone who has been convinced to try this new computer game called D&D Online. Apparently, it's based on this thing you do with dice and paper and Mountain Dew. Sounds kinda cheap - everyone knows real games cost, like, fifty bucks and need hundreds (or thousands) of dollars to buy or build the machine to play on. Whatever, I'm trying it, see? OK, I fire it up, play a little, and then think about what I've seen. Remember, I haven't had the benefit of a couple of decades glossing over any rough edges in a setting. I'm new. What I've just experienced (if I, the writer not Johnny Playstation, am guessing right, and I haven't read Eberron yet) is a world where magic is used to do stuff it should do, where ancient ruins have history, monsters have origins, and there's a good reason to ride off into the depths of Xendrik and beat up monsters and become someone really quite a bit more powerful than the rest of the world.

Now compare that experience to Johnny Playstation playing the hypothetical FR Online. Sure, it'll work. Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and NWN have proven that quite recently. But I don't think it'll feel as cohesive as Eberron, it won't have a Final Fantasy flair to it, and the NPC level is a bit oppressive, or so I hear. Hyperbolically, if you give someone a choice between a nice car, good fuel economy, and comfortable seats; and a top-of-the-line sports car with leather upholstery, an engine that glows in the dark, and a stereo that breaches the Geneva Convention, what will you choose?

Johnny Playstation is a much more lucrative potential market than Simon Tabletop, I believe. Pandering to Johnny, with a setting that's not dumbed down and is, in fact, pretty good for Simon too, seems like a good move to me.

Hm. Now I just have to read the setting whose defence I've leaped to. Maybe I got carried away a little...

 

[Saeviomagy]

You either reinvent yourself like Madonna, or end up like FASA.

This is a bad call - FASA's best selling and most profitable products at the end were Shadowrun and Battletech, and were also their longest running products. From comments made by employees, FASA died by trying to start up too much new stuff too quickly.

 

[Zulithe]

Eberron is the best thing to happen to D&D since the release of Third Edition, I'm all in favor of the upcoming computerized Eberron games.

 

[Mishihari Lord]

...

I love FR. I've never actually PLAYED in FR that I can recall. FR is a mountain of mix and match classic fantasy elements. So much that it doesn't even make sense as a single world. But it is all modular and I shred it and toss the stuff I don't like and blend the cool stuff into my home brew.

Eberron is the opposite. An extremely consistent and rational world that gets there by linking everything in one giant gordian knot.

...

You've just describe exactly what I like about Eberron and exactly why I've never liked FR. For now they're both supported and we're both getting material we like. I'd call that good marketing.

 

[Ahrimon]

Another thing that might have made a differance is how well developed FR is. A lot of the world has been detailed in source books. So if they want to change the layouts of the city's and other well known places to fit the game into a MMORPG, they could end up with a lot of negative feedback about how they changed the game. Ebberon is new enough that the little details haven't been revealed yet and thier free to tweak them to fit into a MMORPG.

Just a thought

Ahrimon

 

[Belegbeth]

The fact that the world was designed to appeal to "Johnny Playstation" (by resembling Final Fantasy) and support a MMORPG are two pretty damning criticisms of Eberron...

These features alone demonstrate why it will not appeal to many traditional fantasy enthusiasts.

But as a gimmick to attract new gamers? Sure, the kids will love it.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I'm would never claim that one person's opinion represents a trend or anything like that, but....

Would you see any meaning in the statement that one of the most devoted myrmidons of Eberron didn't like the most commercially successful setting ever?

Anyway, I've tried reading my copy several times and I see the same thing each time. A world where you are told where everything goes. How that increases adventure options, I will never understand. I've yet to see an actual example of adventure that can be done in Eberron, but not in my homebrew.

That depends on your homebrew world - maybe people can`t have a wild chase through and above a lightning rail (or any other raillike vehicle) in your world?
But I think there is little point to compare Eberron to your homebrew world - you created the world to do exactly the things you like, and you spent a lot of time to do so (I guess). Though you are both biased towards your own setting, but the setting is probably better to you anyway - it suits your needs. A official setting will probably never give you that. But remember, there are many gamers out there who might just start into D&D, and lack the experience to create new worlds. And then there are gamers who simply lack the time to do so.
So, they only question remaining is: Why not Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms?

There is an amazingly developed, detailed and tangled political world in Eberron. And I can completely understand the appeal of that. But beyond that its just telling me what I can and can't do. Who needs that?
Of course I can ignore any of it I want to. But if I start doing that, then what is the point of buying the stuff in the first place?

I love FR. I've never actually PLAYED in FR that I can recall. FR is a mountain of mix and match classic fantasy elements. So much that it doesn't even make sense as a single world. But it is all modular and I shred it and toss the stuff I don't like and blend the cool stuff into my home brew.

Eberron is the opposite. An extremely consistent and rational world that gets there by linking everything in one giant gordian knot.

That`s something I like for a world, if I want to use it. Especially if all of this knowledge is contained in a single book.
Forgotten Realms is a big setting with a rich history and thousands of details. I could never create my own adventures there, because I would always see the risk of breaking continuity with older books or adventures. I know, I could do it and just say: "This is my FR". But I have two players in my group that are ten years older than me, and they probably know a lot about FR. If they suddenly can`t trust their own memories of the setting, it becomes incredibly difficult.
With Eberron, I can take the book, and have all the information I need. At least for now - maybe this is wrong in 2, 5 or 10 years. But unlike with FR, I will be grown up with it.

(These things aside: I will probably not master in Eberron. And I am happy with it, because I prefer playing in it. I already have the burden to master a Diamond Throne / Arcana Unearthed campaign I would prefer playing in )

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20040803a
This is keith's current essay on "What makes it "swashbuckling action"?"
I do not see one word in there that did not apply to Greyhawk 25 years ago.
OK, one exception: action points. I got Unearthed Arcana, I got action points. Next?

Well, he is telling what his setting makes swashbuckling action - not what you might be able to do in other settings. But see it from this point of view:
If you`re a new gamer, you probably don`t have the Unearthed Arcana book (why should you need variant rules if you aren`t familar with the standard rules?)

But the final reason for Wizards of the Coast pushing Eberron so hard:
They have invested some money into it. They want to be sure to get it (and much more) back. They already have a strong book line with Forgotten Realms and their Complete xyz handbooks. They are not pushing only one thing. This might be a danger, if they saturate the market. But so far, it seems not to happen. We´ll see it in a few years...

The fact that the world was designed to appeal to "Johnny Playstation" (by resembling Final Fantasy) and support a MMORPG are two pretty damning criticisms of Eberron...

These features alone demonstrate why it will not appeal to many traditional fantasy enthusiasts.

But as a gimmick to attract new gamers? Sure, the kids will love it.

If Eberron is well-made (and so far, I think it is ), then this isn`t bad. Jonny Playstation might grow up to a John Roleplayer thanks to it.


Mustrum Ridcully

 

[TheAuldGrump]

For what it is worth Ebberon seems like a fairly appealing setting to me, and I am an old gamer. (I still have part of the early Judges Guild Fantasy campaign floating around,,, Predating Greyhawk as a publicly available setting. Unless you count Temple of the Frog.)

It is self consistent, and looks at some of the ramifications of widely available magic, then builds cultures around this. Something that neither Greyhawk nor Forgotten Realms did to my satisfaction.

It adds a lot of variants for folks who are bored with 'just another elf'.

A dynamic history that looks to have repercussions in the future.

That said I am not likely to buy it, not because it isn't good, or possibly excellent, but because I have too many settings already, from my own and from other companies. (Iron Kingdoms, whooey!)

The Auld Grump

 

[Incenjucar]

Something people need to get used to (unless, like me, you intend to eventually try and change it, in which case, be annoyed as you can be to keep you goin'), is that intellectualism, in general, gets no respect anymore. The lowest common denominator is the modern power. This is the tail end of the Renaissance. While the time between has led to the pleasantness of equality (the intellectual masters of old were largely a bunch of bigoted, egotistical nutcases). Everything is 'pop-' now. A scribble mark is considered the finest of art (Picasso's Dove of Peace), while few would pay a thousand dollars for a Tony D masterpiece. Television is full of commercials for "Girls Gone Wild".

D&D is no longer an itty bitty niche product. We've managed to spread it to much of society. That means that it's exposed to the same forces that allow Soap Operas, The Fox News Channel, Cow & Chicken, Trash Romance Novels, and all the rest to thrive. While it's nice to see so many people in book stores these days, many of them really aren't going to be buying a book thicker than one of your fingertips. Of course, there ARE a number of people with a very high vocabulary -- many of them have no idea how to use it (we've all seen the string of big, obscure words to express a three-word idea... and the people who actually use 'oculars' instead of 'eyes' to try and impress people).

This is going to shape the future of D&D, whether we like it or not. The best bet for, say, a 2e-style setting is a 3rd party group that manages to spend on a boxed set to get our attention.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Something people need to get used to (unless, like me, you intend to eventually try and change it, in which case, be annoyed as you can be to keep you goin'), is that intellectualism, in general, gets no respect anymore. The lowest common denominator is the modern power. This is the tail end of the Renaissance. While the time between has led to the pleasantness of equality (the intellectual masters of old were largely a bunch of bigoted, egotistical nutcases). Everything is 'pop-' now. A scribble mark is considered the finest of art (Picasso's Dove of Peace), while few would pay a thousand dollars for a Tony D masterpiece. Television is full of commercials for "Girls Gone Wild".

D&D is no longer an itty bitty niche product. We've managed to spread it to much of society. That means that it's exposed to the same forces that allow Soap Operas, The Fox News Channel, Cow & Chicken, Trash Romance Novels, and all the rest to thrive. While it's nice to see so many people in book stores these days, many of them really aren't going to be buying a book thicker than one of your fingertips. Of course, there ARE a number of people with a very high vocabulary -- many of them have no idea how to use it (we've all seen the string of big, obscure words to express a three-word idea... and the people who actually use 'oculars' instead of 'eyes' to try and impress people).

This is going to shape the future of D&D, whether we like it or not. The best bet for, say, a 2e-style setting is a 3rd party group that manages to spend on a boxed set to get our attention.

Well, seeing modern TV (or better, avoid seeing much parts of the TV - but far from all), I might be willing to agree to you, but I don`t think this applies to Eberron. But I like it, so I am biased.

Mustrum Ridcully