Why is Eberron being pushed so hard?

[Desdichado]

Yeah, I still think Midnight is the best new setting but then again FFG was lucky enough to get their hands on it for publishing... not WOTC. I honestly think Eberron is being pushed because of all the third party campaign settings. Then again, wasn't Kalamar the first WOTC endorsed 3.X edition setting? It certainly seemed to drop below the radar... I just don't hear that much about it these days. I guess WOTC decided that they'd show Kenzer how it was done.

Midnight is great, but it could never have been a WotC setting. Not only is the twist to the setting to dark and esoteric to appeal to "the unwashed masses" but it relies on several major changes to the core rules to make it work. Part of the whole point of the setting search, and the resulting Eberron campaign setting, is that it works with quintessentially D&D elements, and is designed to incorporate them all. Ergo a setting where using magic is difficult and dangerous and the only clerics are evil, to use one example, simply would never have flown.

 

[Mystery Man]

But the brand they are selling isn't Eberron, it's D&D, which is certainly far more recognizable than the Forgotten Realms.

Actually the amount of people are familiar with the Forgotten Realms and have no clue about D&D is huge. You would be surprised at how lopsided it is. Matter of fact ask 10 people how they came to play D&D and 8 will tell you it's from reading an FR novel. Or that damn BG game.

 

[Thanee]

But the brand they are selling isn't Eberron, it's D&D, which is certainly far more recognizable than the Forgotten Realms.

I actually said something similar later in my post.

Still, I think D&D/FR would attract more people to "take a look" than D&D/Eberron.

Bye
Thanee

 

[jmucchiello]

D&D is no longer an itty bitty niche product. We've managed to spread it to much of society.

When did this happen? D&D is still an itty bitty niche product last I heard. More people get together in sewing circles than play D&D week to week.

 

[Destil]

Of course, I have not heard any development problem from Turbine Entertainment (the folks creating the Eberron-based D&D MMORPG). We all remember have remembered the Master Tools/e-Tools debacle with Fluid. Perhaps it is a good thing Atari is managing the electronic licensing of D&D, since they have a longstanding record in that area of expertise. (Then again, I'm biased. My first videogame system is Atari 2600.)

Just one note from a game-buff: the old atari's been dead since 1996. Hasbro bought out their few remaining assets at that point and has been using the name recognition ever since.

A game's developer has more to do with the game than the publisher, though, and Turbine knows what they're doing these days (having learned the hard way).

 

[Tolen Mar]

I'm no expert here...

All I can give you are my opinions.

1. I like Eberron, I dont like FR. At the moment, FR has too much 'power.' FR is TOO well known. You can't do anything in it without upsetting someone who has memorized every little fact everywhere. Eberron is new. Eberron is full of politics, and no one yet knows where the story is headed. If I want to take my Diamond Throne campaign and drop into a fairly unexplored region of Eberron, I can. (In fact, that what I plan to do.)

2. I was not interested in Eberron when I first heard about it. I saw the campaign search (and I kick myself for not entering!), and when they annouced the winners, I looked to see. I got the pre-release pamphlet. The art looked interesting, but it looked disjointed. Then it came closer to time to release, and the hype started. I watched, I listened, I was not interested. It wasn't until I mentioned here that I was looking for a changeling for a PC that someone recommended I look into it. Then I went to work on a homebrew, and someone told me how the artificer would work well in it. So I started thumbing through the book to see. Every time I looked at it, I found more I liked, until I eventually ended up with a copy of my own and plenty of ideas on how to use it.

(Coincidentally, the same thing happened with Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed.)

The only reason the hype and advertising and WOTC's 'push' to sell it worked on me is because it was always out there, I ignored it for a while, but eventually the book itself convinced me.

Now, I have never enjoyed forgotten realms. I have yet to read any DnD novel that was worth my time (there may be some out there, I dont claim to have read many of them). One of my players loves FR, but only the pre 3E stuff. He knows the setting frontwards and backwards. He runs awesome games, and I play in them, but only because its the only game in town when he's GM.

Eberron at least tries to tie most of everything that already out there into the setting. I can run an orc or hobgoblin campaign easily enough. No one is going to complain if I drop a mind flayer into an adventure. Then add on top of it all the political climate. I don't like p[olitics in the real world, but I love the intrigue that a good game sets up. Of course, politics IRL are rarely anything like a good game, but that's beside the point. I like the idea of a power group I can align myself with and not be 'lost in the crowd'.

FR, especially in the 3E days, has suffered from power creep. Interestingly enough, the RIFTS anaolgy works for me. I quit playing RIFTs for the very same reason. Why play a street rat when eveyone else is running around in glitter boys and SAMAS armor? Every new book added some new overpowered toy.

And as far as using the FR name recognition to sell books and video games? Yeah it may be true that more people recognize the FR logo these days. But guess what? When I see that logo on a game or book, I usually put it back on the shelf. 'Oh ANOTHER forgotten realms game. yuck.' Sometimes name recognition can have the opposite effect, and I really doubt that I am the only one who passes on FR materials. Selling Eberron is new, you dont have the legions of rabid fans worried about upsetting their favorite details, and my limited budget just might make room for a new setting over anything that came from Faerun.

One last thing, before you think Im just some 3E fanboy or a wet behind the ears newbie: I cut my teeth on the 1E books, the ones with two column small print on every page and the random dungeon tables in the back. Where it was a trial to get psionics, or become a monk. I have played many 2E games, including several in FR. I picked up 3E for a variety of reasons that have been thoroughly discussed elsewhere. My favorite settings previously were wierd settings (Spelljammer, Ravenloft), or full of politics (Birthright). With Monte Cooks Arcana Unearthed and Eberron, we now have new settings that aren't clones of other settings. I don't have to worry about Drizzt in funny clothes showing up, or Elminster, or any of the clones created by fans of FR who want to do the same thing.

Sorry for the length of this rant, Ill return you to your regularly scheduled web surfing now...

 

[Belegbeth]

By whose standards? Yours. Right. I guess they aught to close it down then..

People can do whatever they want. Heck, someone is producing a second DnD film now. Thinking that something is not very good is not the same thing as thinking that people should be prevented from "doing it."

Again, who says? By and large, 'tradational fantasy enthusiaists' read Robert Jordan and dog eared copies of the Lord of the Rings. They don't play D&D, and if they do it is a lot more likley they are doing it on their computers and playstations, where it is accessible and only as effort and time intensive as one desires it to be...

Well I don't know where you're getting your data here...

But in any case, IMO it is pretty clear what a "traditional" fantasy world looks like. Think about the inspiration behind DnD itself: works by Tolkien, Howard, Leiber, Vance, et al. Contrast that with the "Final Fantasy" character of Eberron, and the downright silliness of MMORPG worlds. The difference is clear.

Which is the whole point, if you want to, you know, have a RPG industry or even hobby in 10 or 20 years when all the grumpy old gamers finally buy the farm.

*Sigh* So we grumpy old gamers have to grin and bear it, for the sake of the "greater good" of the hobby? Whatever.

 

[myrdden]

Kind of like how you'd much rather meet Ms. Hawaii in person than, say, me.

Oh...I dunno. Your signature has sold me!

 

[grimslade]

Eberron and on and on

As for the original scope of this thread: Eberron is being pushed because it is new and built for the 3.5e age. It is a setting where everything can have a home, but is not straight-jacketed by years of shared world detailing. Plus the setting search was a big success for WotC PR with players, not so much with former WotC designers. It has a bit of hype so they follow the buzz until it fizzles.

As to the side issues about Eberron:
I believe, IMHO, that Eberron hearkens back to classic fantasy pulp better than Greyhawk or FR. I see more of Lankhmar and Shem in Eberron than the other two.
I love Greyhawk but it is more nostalgia than the actual setting. It is the campaign I cut my rpg teeth in. I still play in Greyhawk because I have over a quarter century of gaming memories.
Forgotten Realms has always seemed like a collection of separate campaigns cobbled together. You want ancient egypt, you got it. You want super high magic as technology, have Halruaa. The setting is well presented, has beautiful art, and has some fantastic NPCs. It also suffers from almost two decades of ever-increasing detail and power creep. The old grey box set was great and the 3.0e hardcover was a milestone of how good a campaign book could be, but all the hundreds of supplements have left the Forgotten from the realms.
I like Eberron because it evokes a level of mystery and discovery. It is not comprised of anything groundbreaking or estranged from D&D. It is not Planescape or Dark Sun. It simply weaves a lot of disparate ideas into a cohesive and refreshing whole. It also has a different focus than the other WotC settings. The focus is on the PCs. The focus is on creating a better story for the characters, not advancing through a meta-plot or dodging the actions of other uber-NPCs. My feelings for this setting may change as the crushing weight of years of supplements confine and codify Eberron, but for now I like it and recommend it.

Grim

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Perhaps it is a good thing Atari is managing the electronic licensing of D&D, since they have a longstanding record in that area of expertise. (Then again, I'm biased. My first videogame system is Atari 2600.)

As Destil said, different company, though I didn't realize Hasbro was the parent company, though it explains a bit.

The current incarnation of Atari is regarded as being less than developer-friendly by many, and I definitely find them to be less than customer-friendly. Though not much worse so than the original Atari by the end. Right before the video game crash, Atari was a nightmare.