D&D 4E Why no beginner boxed set for 4E? [Set Confirmed in post 10]

[Hussar]

If you want D&D Light, why not start with DDM? To me, DDM is the gateway game for D&D. If you can play DDM, with a minimum of extra effort, you can play D&D.

 

[Nyaricus]

Keep on the Shadowfell will be an intro product for existing players to help transition to 4e rules.

In the fall of 2008 we have a product planed that will be a starter for new RPG players that will teach the basics.

Sweet

 

[Reynard]

Keep on the Shadowfell will be an intro product for existing players to help transition to 4e rules.

In the fall of 2008 we have a product planed that will be a starter for new RPG players that will teach the basics.

Thanks, Scott, for the reply.

Given that you obviously have a long lead time on this, I would strongly urge you and the rest of the design team to not just go for a paired down, half-assed game in order to suck players into the game. Give new, young players a complete and exceptional experience and you won't have to "trick" them into buying the product. it will be good, and they'll want it, and they'll move on to the full version when they are ready.

Go dig out the Red Box and really look at it. Play the solo adventure again. Have someone who has never played before be the DM and see how easy it is for that to work.

That is the model a 4E basic/intro set should use, not a glorified board game or minis starter set.

 

[delericho]

At Gen Con, I asked my rep about a Basic set. His reply was there will be one, but first we get the core rules. (Could you imagine the riot if this were reversed?)

There might be a riot... but I'm starting to think this is probably the right way to go.

I can't shake the feeling that the 'buy in' for D&D is just far too high: to get the complete game, someone has to buy three core rulebooks at $30 each, then read through 1,000 pages of text, and then prepare an adventure (before they even get to start having fun!). Efforts to bring new players in through a "Basic Set" seem to have largely failed - I suspect a lot of people get to the end of the boxed set, look at the 1,000 pages that represent the 'next step', and give up.

So, I'm wondering if the way forward isn't actually to produce a single rulebook (perhaps even reducing that to 160 pages and $20-25) presenting the complete game (perhaps up to 12th level or so), including a sampling of feats, monsters and spells, but also including advice for beginner DMs, a sample world, town and adventure (all in brief, of course).

The game would then be expanded over the next twelve months or so with a "High Level Companion" (expanding to 20 or 30 levels), a Grimoire, Bestiary, and various classbooks (or PHB2, or whatever).

 

[Goken100]

There might be a riot... but I'm starting to think this is probably the right way to go.

I can't shake the feeling that the 'buy in' for D&D is just far too high: to get the complete game, someone has to buy three core rulebooks at $30 each, then read through 1,000 pages of text, and then prepare an adventure (before they even get to start having fun!). Efforts to bring new players in through a "Basic Set" seem to have largely failed - I suspect a lot of people get to the end of the boxed set, look at the 1,000 pages that represent the 'next step', and give up.

So, I'm wondering if the way forward isn't actually to produce a single rulebook (perhaps even reducing that to 160 pages and $20-25) presenting the complete game (perhaps up to 12th level or so), including a sampling of feats, monsters and spells, but also including advice for beginner DMs, a sample world, town and adventure (all in brief, of course).

The game would then be expanded over the next twelve months or so with a "High Level Companion" (expanding to 20 or 30 levels), a Grimoire, Bestiary, and various classbooks (or PHB2, or whatever).

There's no 3-book buy-in for D&D. I've played for years with nothing but a PH and my imagination. That said, I might consider a DMG this time around, cause it sounds a bit more useful. But newbies don't need it, and they certainly don't need a Monster Manual.

 

[Reynard]

There's no 3-book buy-in for D&D. I've played for years with nothing but a PH and my imagination. That said, I might consider a DMG this time around, cause it sounds a bit more useful. But newbies don't need it, and they certainly don't need a Monster Manual.

You are either kidding or your experience is so far away from mine -- and I would guess the norm -- that it can't be used to draw any general conclusions.

 

[Monkey Boy]

I don't think Goken100 is kidding. I got by fine with just the PHB for about a year before the bug bit and I started buying splats. Half of the players in our group only own the PHB.

Go dig out the Red Box and really look at it. Play the solo adventure again. Have someone who has never played before be the DM and see how easy it is for that to work.

That is the model a 4E basic/intro set should use, not a glorified board game or minis starter set.

I have changed my mind and now agree with Reynard. Red Box worked for many of us here (Damn you Bargle!) I'm not so sure the latest round of 3.x Basic sets have had the level of success Red Box did. But I'm biased.

 

[delericho]

I don't think Goken100 is kidding. I got by fine with just the PHB for about a year before the bug bit and I started buying splats. Half of the players in our group only own the PHB.

Does the DM not own the DMG and MM?

 

[Doc_Klueless]

You are either kidding or your experience is so far away from mine -- and I would guess the norm -- that it can't be used to draw any general conclusions.

I don't think it's too far from the norm. In the last group I played in, only me and the DM owned any books other than the Player's Handbook and there were 7 of us.

The DMG and Monster Manual are really only needed if you plan on running the game, instead of just playing in it.

 

[BryonD]

I don't think it's too far from the norm. In the last group I played in, only me and the DM owned any books other than the Player's Handbook and there were 7 of us.

The DMG and Monster Manual are really only needed if you plan on running the game, instead of just playing in it.

That is also my experience. My player's own PHs. One of them bought Underdark simply because he was a Drizzt fan and wanted to read that book for fun. I'm pretty certain that is it.