D&D 5E Wights and wraiths

[the Jester]

The new Wandering Monsters article discusses wights, wraiths and energy, and it sounds to me like ED is one of those really up in the air areas.

I think energy drain should be scary. I think wights and wraiths should both spawn. I do not think wights should be especially smart- I remember
Average intelligence in 1e, and that's the classic wight I want!

I think they mostly got the wraith right, except for the "leaning away from spawning" bit.

 

[Li Shenron]

Energy Drain

We discussed it recently in another thread. I think ED should indeed be scary. If it's not scary, if it's nothing but another form of damage, then they'd better just ignore the whole thing.

For my tastes, the current version is not scary at all.

Personally my favourite would be a true level drain. That doesn't go away with any resting. That requires magic to be healed, and there is always a not so small chance that it still won't work.

But since such level drain is suitable only for some campaigns and some gaming groups, I really think it should be optional.

How do you make a monster special attack optional? It's not hard at all: you give it an XP bonus. If one DM uses level drain on a monster then such monster is simply worth more XP (and eventually has a higher CR, if this concept still exists in 5e) than the same monster without level drain, or with a lesser version of the level drain.

Spawn

This also is an idea that works in some campaign settings but not in others.

I am not a fan, with a few exceptions (e.g. vampires). I am not going to use any spawning rules for wights or wraiths. IMHO it doesn't match at all with the backstory of these undead, which were turned into their current form by some evil they did.

But fortunately, spawning can be more easily removed from a monster with little effect on the game, since it happens only after they killed a PC.

If it happens quickly (which normally is another thing that goes against my preferences...) then it does have an effect on XP/CR, but if it's slow enough that it can't happen during the same encounter, thus it won't grant a combat advantage to the monster, then it has no effects at all on XP/CR.

 

[Plaguescarred]

I like the description but something doesn't feel right. If In life, a Wight or a Wraith was a truly evil person whose anger and all-consuming ambition distorted it into a hateful and murderous creature, then those creatures should not turn victims they killed into one because the first assumption is then invalidated and just anyone that wasn't evil could be a Wight or Wraith by having been killed by one.

I think both creatures should energy drain on each attacks. Hit Dice ressources siphon seems like a good fit. It represents life force draining well enought while keeping bookeeping to a minimal. It could drain a Hit Dice and deal 1d8 extra damage for exemplel, so that it still produce an effect for group not using the Hit Dice mechanic. It could also have an optional level drain mechanic for people wishing for it.

 

[Klaus]

My only big beef with the article is the "D&D wraith = Ringwraith" thing.

Here's my comment from the article:

I'm not keen on the comparison of D&D's wraiths with Tolkien's Ringwraiths. For starters, the Nazgul were corporeal, and required weapons and mounts (either black horses or fell beasts), whereas D&D wraiths are incorporeal, can fly, and their very touch is a bane to living things.

D&D wights are much closer to the Nazgul, and, aside from the "tattered cloak" imagery, really fit the bill. The Witch-King of Angmar would be a high-level deathlock.

D&D wraiths are more akin to the spectral killer in "The Frighteners" (another Peter Jackson movie!), or some of the evil spirits in "Night of Bald Mountain" (from Fantasia). I see their sense of self completely consumed by their hatred of all living things (making them perhaps the "purest" of all undead).

 

[jrowland]

Not to derail a thread nor resurrect one, but here is another area where a separate hit point list would help. Hit points are the catch-all and as envisioned, energy drain should drain hit points, but that is boring. a separate "fatigue" would help on that score.

However, we do have Hit Dice, so losing Hit Dice would be scary if a little boring. Losing Expertise Dice would be scary, but the other classes would need to have something to "lose".

Its a tough nut to crack.

I don't like the idea of Wight-spawn, but I can live with zombies rising from the corpses near a wight...ie wights could go to a graveyard and create zombies (why do D&D folk use graveyards?).

For Wraiths, PC-becoming a wight is a little lame. Its like rubbing salt on a wound: Not only are you dead, but now you are a monster! If the Wraith "collected essence" from each energy drain, then after (some number, say 5) essences could infuse a corpse to become a wight, I could get behind. The dead PC still could be "infused" but its not automatic. The wraith may have a fresh corpse it would rather infuse (the towns captain-general, eg) or the surviving PCs could prevent the infusion, etc. In addition, drained PCs could get their essence back by defeating the wraith/wight-spawn or by magical means (restoration, eg).

 

[Zaukrie]

No to spawning, it is inconsistent with the backstory, and if you could spawn, wouldn't you go from small village to village and create an army super fast?

I agree, draining should he scary. But level drain is a pain in the rear.

 

[StAlda]

I like the "damage Max Hit points" aspect of it though. So much so that I made critical hits the same way (creatures deal normal damage but to max HP, characters do max + normal - since most opponents don't survive the battle). But, I have max hit points heal slowly, unless healed by certain magic. After every extended rest you get so many back (I don't have my rules in front of me right now). We have playtested this for awhile now, it seems to affect character behavior towards battles, but not so heavy handed that it is all that is thought about.

However, they have not fought an ED undead yet, bladder control issues may ensue.

 

[the Jester]

No to spawning, it is inconsistent with the backstory, and if you could spawn, wouldn't you go from small village to village and create an army super fast?

Not if you hate the sunlight... or at least, you'd only get villages right nearby.

OTOH isn't a village that's been converted to undead a creepy and cool adventure hook?

 

[The Shadow]

Wights and wraiths shouldn't spawn examples of themselves (or each other), that's inconsistent with the backstory.

But wights spawning zombies and wraiths spawning maybe shadows... that could be cool. If you're worried about exponential growth, just put an upper cap on how many they can turn.

As for the Ringwraiths... My impression is that they are mostly incorporeal. Gandalf says that "the black robes are real robes that they wear to give shape to their nothingness when they have dealings with the living." Aside from the lack of a flight speed, they do seem to be wraiths, perhaps with a magic item (the robes) that lets them touch the physical world.

 

[the Jester]

Wights and wraiths shouldn't spawn examples of themselves (or each other), that's inconsistent with the backstory.

That's a very good point.

But wights spawning zombies and wraiths spawning maybe shadows... that could be cool. If you're worried about exponential growth, just put an upper cap on how many they can turn.

I always thought the combination of sunlight avoidance and evil turning on itself would do the trick. Even if the lesser wraith can't disobey or attack its master wraith, enough of them can work together to arrange attacks by adventurers, accidents (assuming that something that could hurt or trap its master is around- probably a magic area or trap, luring an evil cleric to take control, etc).

As for the Ringwraiths... My impression is that they are mostly incorporeal. Gandalf says that "the black robes are real robes that they wear to give shape to their nothingness when they have dealings with the living." Aside from the lack of a flight speed, they do seem to be wraiths, perhaps with a magic item (the robes) that lets them touch the physical world.

I guess this is open to interpretation- I always thought they were incorporeal, too. But of course it isn't like Tolkien was giving us stats or anything. Still, I think that wraiths were likely based on the ringwraiths.