Will magic implements + magic weapons make high level multiclassing unfeasible?

[Zsig]

Let's see, if you start a Level 27 character from scratch you get:

A level 28 Magic Item
A level 27 Magic Item
A level 26 Magic Item
1,125,000gp

The 2 top items would probably be what you consider of most importance, so a Wizard/Fighter would probably prefer his implement in place of a martial Weapon

Staff of the war mage +6, sounds cool to me.

Next his level 27 magic item. I'll go with armor.
Sunleaf Starweave armor +6

The level 26 item could either be your melee weapon or a "neck slot" item. I'll go with the neck slot just to be sure I won't lag behind on my defenses
Amulet of protection +6

Now you have over a million gold to spend with whatever you want. Keep in mind that a "regular" sword +6 (with no additional effects) costs exactly that 1.125.000 gold, if you take a +5 (225,000gp) you'll still have lots of money to spend with other minor items.

Of course, all that assumes that you're using the rules for creating a high level character. If you got yourself to a higher level by playing through it you'll obviously achieve a different outcome... or not?

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

For example, let's say you have a wizard/fighter multiclass. The wizard gets his extra attack/damage bonus from his magic orb, while his fighter powers need a magic sword. He needs twice the offensive magic items in order to keep his powers competitive, because losing a +4 to attack and damage is a painful loss.

Do you think that will make these kinds of multiclass harder to make successful at high levels....or do you think its simply a matter of the DM putting in different kinds of treasure.

There are options to use your weapon as your implement.

Right now the paragon path Wizard of the Spiral Tower allows the wizard to use a longsword as his implement.

Of course, if you are a full MC (No paragon path, instead take more multiclass power) you don't have that option.

But we already know of a feat that does just that in upcoming sourcebook (mentioned in a designer's blog) and allows you to use your magic weapon as an implement.

If a PC wanted that before this sourcebook is out (I think it's the martial sourcebok), I'd just make it up.

Something like Dex 15, Int 15 to use a sword as an implement. Replace dex by Con for a axe. Etc.

PS : Holy Avenger and Pact daggers are already known weapons that can be used as implements by paladins and warlock. You could also have specific weapons that can be used in the same way for wizards.
PPS : I mean, aside from the staff that is already an excellent weapon/implement given the specialization bonus a wizard can have with it.

 

[Drakhar]

What if you're none of those? Like a half-elf paladin/warlock, or an eladrin warlord/wizard? Those should be viable as well.

Well for the Half-Elf Paladin...use a Holy Avenger.

 

[Xzylvador]

Also, if money IS a problem, you can buy the basic 'Magic Weapon +6' instead of the "Flaming Weapon +6" same added attack and crits, 1/3rd of the price. Ok, it won't have a 1/day power. But you do have the same bonusses, versatility from multiclass, and you've got 2 million gps left to buy your wife something nice!

 

[Nifft]

What if you're none of those? Like a half-elf paladin/warlock, or an eladrin warlord/wizard? Those should be viable as well.

WHY should those be viable?

A low-Dex Rogue isn't viable. A low-Strength Fighter isn't viable.

Classes are tools. If you can think of a concept, it may be possible to model it using the classes, but the classes themselves have no inherent obligation to be "viable".

- - -

If you want a charismatic mage who is surprisingly adept with his blade, I can make you that. WHY do you care what I use to make it?

Cheers, -- N

 

[MindWanderer]

WHY should those be viable?

A low-Dex Rogue isn't viable. A low-Strength Fighter isn't viable.

Classes are tools. If you can think of a concept, it may be possible to model it using the classes, but the classes themselves have no inherent obligation to be "viable".

- - -

If you want a charismatic mage who is surprisingly adept with his blade, I can make you that. WHY do you care what I use to make it?

Cheers, -- N

All right, fine. Say the concept is an eladrin army officer, an experienced commander, who is also trained in the arcane traditions of his people as part of his "breadth"-based education. Or a half-elf warrior-champion of Asmodeus, able to smite with his blade or call down power from Hell.

I'm not talking about stats, but I do believe that no multiclass combination should be inherently crippled. Sub-optimal, perhaps, but not crippled.

 

[Starbuck_II]

All right, fine. Say the concept is an eladrin army officer, an experienced commander, who is also trained in the arcane traditions of his people as part of his "breadth"-based education. Or a half-elf warrior-champion of Asmodeus, able to smite with his blade or call down power from Hell.

I'm not talking about stats, but I do believe that no multiclass combination should be inherently crippled. Sub-optimal, perhaps, but not crippled.

Option #2:
Wait, isn't Holy Avenger count as a implement? Just call it Unholy Avenger in public. Same idea; Asmodeus will never know.

Option 1: Eldarin who uses Wizard multiclass feats and then paragon Wizard of the Spiral Tower. There now his longsword is an implement.

 

[Nifft]

There's a nice Eladrin gish build in the top post here.


Half-Elf warlock-gish is fairly easy. Just pick which stats you need, and build from there. Hammers only need Str and Con, so that's a good weapon for an Infernal warlock. Choose a Str or Con based dilettante power (like Cleave), choose armor proficiency (chain), and you're set for 1st level.

2nd level you have to choose between upgrading your weapon (weapon proficiency) or your hit points (toughness).

4th level take the other one.

6th level take the Fighter multi-class feat.

8th level take the Utility power swap feat, and get Boundless Endurance (2nd level) or Unbreakable (6th level).

10th level Weapon Focus (hammer)

11th level Hammer Rhythm (deal Con damage when you miss with a hammer) -- now your basic attack is always as good as one of the Fighter's At-Will powers. DONE.

What Paragon Path? Either Kensei for great damage with your beloved war-hammer, or Iron Vanguard for amazing Con synergy. (Seriously, an Iron Vanguard heals his Con bonus every time he drops a foe. You're a Striker. You can run away and heal up.)


Your damage output will be good even before one considers the bonus damage you'll get from your Curse.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Nifft]

Option #2:
Wait, isn't Holy Avenger count as a implement? Just call it Unholy Avenger in public. Same idea; Asmodeus will never know.

Actually, He will. Avengers only count as implements for Paladin powers.

Cheers, -- N

 

[loisel]

Uhm, after playing with the rules for a bit, I think that more to the point:

multiclassing doesn't work.

If you want one token power from another class, you can do it, but you have to jump through a zillion hoops. If you really want to multiclass, forget it.