Winter Ceramic DM™: THE WINNER!
Sialia,
I just had some thoughts running through my head last night. Tarnby's death was an impact because we had seen he was a true friend and caring soul.
Zhaneel
I just had some thoughts running through my head last night. Tarnby's death was an impact because we had seen he was a true friend and caring soul.
However, Lillabro's death meant nothing becuase she was (mostly) just comic relief and a convient character. Perhaps getting to know her and understanding why Volpe mourns her would help the readers be more emotionally affected in the third installment. Just a thought. You mentioned about the 2nd one that Tarnby was death fodder 'cause you didn't know him well. And then so was Lillabro. This speaks to me of a not so good habit as a writer to kill off characters who aren't interesting to you. Deaths are more interesting when the character has been interesting. GRR Martin does a superb job at making you care about the characters before killing them.
Zhaneel
Berandor
lunatic
It's the "End of the world", and in the spoiler text - my thoughts.
if you have any question, ask away.
ETA: And Zhaneel: Word! That's why
So we start off with a curse - that's standard. Or better, the lack of a curse, a nice play on the previous stories and yet a possible weakness if you're planning to disregard those.
So let me now say that I won't do that. If I would, then I would expect more introduction to setting and characters in stories 2 and 3, and I would be bored. But I can't expect Sialia to keep the stories apart and yet not repeat herself in presentation, so I'm happy with continuity.
And yet, the beginning of the story is in my mind too dependant on the previous story (yes, I know, I contradict myself). We start off with the mourning for someone who died somewhere and somehow - all of this happening before the story. While I don't really need a total independence of the stories, they should be capable to at least barely stand alone. The second story, while keeping characters and setting, was a good example of that. The End of the World, however, reads like another chapter of a book, not like an autonomous short story or, in Sialia's case, novella.
So then we retread "Shogun", albeit without Richard Chamberlain, but complete with Dutch language and a bathing scene reminiscent of Clavell. The End of the World seems to be in Japan. I was put off by that culture change somehow, as well as the sudden change in climate.
I loved the maypole scene, however, and would have really liked to know who won
Volpe repeats more than once his admonishment about the last village, the very last village. I understood it as "please let us remain in good graces of at least one settlement." So it's not only the last village on the planet, meaning the village on the Edge of the World, but also the last village Volpe hasn't had to flee yet. However, I don't think that really became clear.
Speaking of clarity, there are some things that could have been cleared up. Especially when the story is as long as this one (compared to other entries), leaving motivations or circumstances vague should be avoided. Why else do you need the space, if not to explain why Mirabelle suddenly throws herself at Volpe with abandon, so much that she gets frustrated when he doesn't reciprocrate. Of course, Tarnby's death, the liquor, the illithids all play a part in this, but by refusing to show us Mirabelle's point of view, it doesn't seem natural for her to act thusly - especially so close after attacking the friendly Miguel at the mere suggestion of indiscretion.
On the other hand, the story is full with hints and suggestions of greater ideas: the crumbling village with people still living there, Miguel and his numerous wives, some might even be his (grand-)daughters, the fleetingness of time. Lillabo's dreams are symbolic and poetic, and really enhance the mood.
The final confrontation is suprising because the reader wouldn't expect the fungus having such an effect and absorbing the illithids. Lillabo's death wasn't that surprising anymore, and also not very harrowing, but the professor's singing proved a strong companion to her sacrifice, and I liked that very much. If Volpe would have died, as well, and Mirabelle had remained - she who shut herself off from others, finally alone - that would have been tragic, and I would have preferred such an end.
As it is, the story ends on a high note, with the promise of future. The conflict, once again, was glossed over (like the conflict with the mind flayers, or the theft of the boat), as it was not important for the hero's voyage.
All in all, if you would want to write more short stories, I'd try and cut even more than you probably did. The maypole, Miguel, and some minor things wouldn't have been necessary for the story, especially out of the contest context (with no need to incorporate the pictures). My suggestion, however, would be to concentrate on novels, as you'd have more space to flesh out your themes and ideas - and I'd really enjoy that.
So let me now say that I won't do that. If I would, then I would expect more introduction to setting and characters in stories 2 and 3, and I would be bored. But I can't expect Sialia to keep the stories apart and yet not repeat herself in presentation, so I'm happy with continuity.
And yet, the beginning of the story is in my mind too dependant on the previous story (yes, I know, I contradict myself). We start off with the mourning for someone who died somewhere and somehow - all of this happening before the story. While I don't really need a total independence of the stories, they should be capable to at least barely stand alone. The second story, while keeping characters and setting, was a good example of that. The End of the World, however, reads like another chapter of a book, not like an autonomous short story or, in Sialia's case, novella.
So then we retread "Shogun", albeit without Richard Chamberlain, but complete with Dutch language and a bathing scene reminiscent of Clavell. The End of the World seems to be in Japan.
I was put off by that culture change somehow, as well as the sudden change in climate.I loved the maypole scene, however, and would have really liked to know who won
Volpe repeats more than once his admonishment about the last village, the very last village. I understood it as "please let us remain in good graces of at least one settlement." So it's not only the last village on the planet, meaning the village on the Edge of the World, but also the last village Volpe hasn't had to flee yet. However, I don't think that really became clear.
Speaking of clarity, there are some things that could have been cleared up. Especially when the story is as long as this one (compared to other entries), leaving motivations or circumstances vague should be avoided. Why else do you need the space, if not to explain why Mirabelle suddenly throws herself at Volpe with abandon, so much that she gets frustrated when he doesn't reciprocrate. Of course, Tarnby's death, the liquor, the illithids all play a part in this, but by refusing to show us Mirabelle's point of view, it doesn't seem natural for her to act thusly - especially so close after attacking the friendly Miguel at the mere suggestion of indiscretion.
On the other hand, the story is full with hints and suggestions of greater ideas: the crumbling village with people still living there, Miguel and his numerous wives, some might even be his (grand-)daughters, the fleetingness of time. Lillabo's dreams are symbolic and poetic, and really enhance the mood.
The final confrontation is suprising because the reader wouldn't expect the fungus having such an effect and absorbing the illithids. Lillabo's death wasn't that surprising anymore, and also not very harrowing, but the professor's singing proved a strong companion to her sacrifice, and I liked that very much. If Volpe would have died, as well, and Mirabelle had remained - she who shut herself off from others, finally alone - that would have been tragic, and I would have preferred such an end.
As it is, the story ends on a high note, with the promise of future. The conflict, once again, was glossed over (like the conflict with the mind flayers, or the theft of the boat), as it was not important for the hero's voyage.
All in all, if you would want to write more short stories, I'd try and cut even more than you probably did. The maypole, Miguel, and some minor things wouldn't have been necessary for the story, especially out of the contest context (with no need to incorporate the pictures). My suggestion, however, would be to concentrate on novels, as you'd have more space to flesh out your themes and ideas - and I'd really enjoy that.
ETA: And Zhaneel: Word! That's why
I would have preferred to see Volpe die, as well - I knew an liked him.
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Oh yeah, quick note:
Zhaneel
I never understood what it was that Lillabro did to kill the illithid conglmorate, so that really confused me and me appreciate her sacrifice even less. Would be good if the readers knew/understodd what the sacrifice accomplished. Maybe I missed it, though.
Zhaneel
Sialia
First Post
Thanks Berandor!
Some replies to specific points:
Some replies to specific points:
The bathhouse wasn't ripped from Shogun. It was ripped from my victory dance from celebrating my graduation in December. I left out the massage because some things are too fine to share.
The cultural mix is a direct depiction of the racial and ethnic mix of the neighborhood I live in. Yes, the kids on the playground here do speak a jumble of Japanese, Chinese, Dutch, Spanish, Hindi and even occasionally English. The market was based on a combination of a real Italian market, a Chinese market in San Francisco, and the mostly Hispanic flea market in San Jose. I have read Shogun, but it never crossed my mind during this writing spree.
As far as the continuity/stand alone thing-- by Friday evening I made the decision that completing the story was more important to me than winning. It took a couple of glasses of Southern Comfort to learn to live with the decision, but it was the right one. Losing the contest I'll get over in a few days. Not getting the characters to a place of closure has no end for me. I never manage to let go of unfinished tales. As a mitigating courtesy, I did what I could to recap anything important from the earlier tales for those tuning in late.
Yup--that’s what I meant. Sorry it wasn’t clear. They started out in roughly the equivalent of West Virginia, and worked their way across the continent, and may not have a clear sense of whether there are any other continents besides the one they are on. They’ve come to the far west of it, and can not go any farther in the direction they’ve been going, and they’ve left a mess behind them every single place they’ve been, because they're the kind of characters who flee their troubles instead of facing them.
Obviously, they could go north or south--there’s plenty of world they’ve missed, but they are out of supplies and exhausted, and Volpe is trying to impress on the kleptomaniac and the hostile non-diplomat that they need to be on their best behavior just this once.
because I’m a long winded and arrogant bastard. ;-)
because she decided to get over herself when she realized that they all nearly died back there. Tarnby may have been the only one who got the axe, but it was a very near thing for all of them. Again, my job to explain that, and I didn’t. Or rather, I moved her discussing that to a different place, where it looked like she was talking about something else, and it was less effective there.
In any case, she realized that she wanted him, and decided to do something about it, because she's not into subtle flirting, and Volpe needed to be hit over the ehad with a brick to realize that she wasn't off limits to him, and Mirabelle is always obliging about providing clue bricks.
Ok, true confession: Miguel was supposed to be the love interest.
Ah, but it was disgusting. I couldn’t bear it.
While I was sweating over that, she informed me that the reason the scene didn’t work was that Miguel hadn’t earned her trust the way Volpe had. Miguel had no right to touch her. Volpe did. But of course, he was too . . .Volpe . .. to permit himself any thoughts on the subject. And by the time I got my head around all of that, I forgot that the rest of you weren’t in on her admission about him to me.
You have to imagine how fast I have to write to build these things--27 pages in less than 2 days takes a lot of doing. Yeah, I had three, but I also have a life. Saturday night I spent drinking champagne in Chinatown. Sunday my child spiked a fever and passed out in a restaurant in the middle of a plate of pancakes. So 2 days is all this one got.
ah no--he specifically said only round ears are allowed to compete. He’s careful about that sort of thing.
We’ll go in to the fungus later. Lots of research in that one--too long to tell now.
Lillabo’s death wasn’t meant to be tragic. She did an awful thing to Tarnby, and I thought of it as karmic payback time. Her one effort she’s ever made in her whole life to clean up a mess she’s made, to set something right that she left behind.
Lillabo started as my first and favorite character. But from the vantage point I am at now, I saw her immaturity and her need to grow up. I gave her a chance to do that. And she did it and I was proud of her for it. Again, I’m sorry that didn’t come through clearly. I felt kind of grossed out at the lack of subtley in the emotional tearjerking in the second one, and decided to try something different--a death that was well earned.
Mirabelle and Volpe both also needed to work on certain character flaws to achieve growth and closure. Neither of them needed to die to get there. They both got there, but it was 4 am on Monday at that point, and so it was perhaps not as well done as it could have been done. C’est la guerre.
The maypole and Miguel are both absolutely essential to what this story is about. Go back and look at it again, and think about what the yarn, the town, the fungus mind and Volpe all have in common.
It's there, I promise.
It was the reason for writing the tale.
The cultural mix is a direct depiction of the racial and ethnic mix of the neighborhood I live in. Yes, the kids on the playground here do speak a jumble of Japanese, Chinese, Dutch, Spanish, Hindi and even occasionally English. The market was based on a combination of a real Italian market, a Chinese market in San Francisco, and the mostly Hispanic flea market in San Jose. I have read Shogun, but it never crossed my mind during this writing spree.
As far as the continuity/stand alone thing-- by Friday evening I made the decision that completing the story was more important to me than winning. It took a couple of glasses of Southern Comfort to learn to live with the decision, but it was the right one. Losing the contest I'll get over in a few days. Not getting the characters to a place of closure has no end for me. I never manage to let go of unfinished tales. As a mitigating courtesy, I did what I could to recap anything important from the earlier tales for those tuning in late.
Yup--that’s what I meant. Sorry it wasn’t clear. They started out in roughly the equivalent of West Virginia, and worked their way across the continent, and may not have a clear sense of whether there are any other continents besides the one they are on. They’ve come to the far west of it, and can not go any farther in the direction they’ve been going, and they’ve left a mess behind them every single place they’ve been, because they're the kind of characters who flee their troubles instead of facing them.
Obviously, they could go north or south--there’s plenty of world they’ve missed, but they are out of supplies and exhausted, and Volpe is trying to impress on the kleptomaniac and the hostile non-diplomat that they need to be on their best behavior just this once.
because I’m a long winded and arrogant bastard. ;-)
because she decided to get over herself when she realized that they all nearly died back there. Tarnby may have been the only one who got the axe, but it was a very near thing for all of them. Again, my job to explain that, and I didn’t. Or rather, I moved her discussing that to a different place, where it looked like she was talking about something else, and it was less effective there.
In any case, she realized that she wanted him, and decided to do something about it, because she's not into subtle flirting, and Volpe needed to be hit over the ehad with a brick to realize that she wasn't off limits to him, and Mirabelle is always obliging about providing clue bricks.
Ok, true confession: Miguel was supposed to be the love interest.
Ah, but it was disgusting. I couldn’t bear it.
While I was sweating over that, she informed me that the reason the scene didn’t work was that Miguel hadn’t earned her trust the way Volpe had. Miguel had no right to touch her. Volpe did. But of course, he was too . . .Volpe . .. to permit himself any thoughts on the subject. And by the time I got my head around all of that, I forgot that the rest of you weren’t in on her admission about him to me.
You have to imagine how fast I have to write to build these things--27 pages in less than 2 days takes a lot of doing. Yeah, I had three, but I also have a life. Saturday night I spent drinking champagne in Chinatown. Sunday my child spiked a fever and passed out in a restaurant in the middle of a plate of pancakes. So 2 days is all this one got.
ah no--he specifically said only round ears are allowed to compete. He’s careful about that sort of thing.
We’ll go in to the fungus later. Lots of research in that one--too long to tell now.
Lillabo’s death wasn’t meant to be tragic. She did an awful thing to Tarnby, and I thought of it as karmic payback time. Her one effort she’s ever made in her whole life to clean up a mess she’s made, to set something right that she left behind.
Lillabo started as my first and favorite character. But from the vantage point I am at now, I saw her immaturity and her need to grow up. I gave her a chance to do that. And she did it and I was proud of her for it. Again, I’m sorry that didn’t come through clearly. I felt kind of grossed out at the lack of subtley in the emotional tearjerking in the second one, and decided to try something different--a death that was well earned.
Mirabelle and Volpe both also needed to work on certain character flaws to achieve growth and closure. Neither of them needed to die to get there. They both got there, but it was 4 am on Monday at that point, and so it was perhaps not as well done as it could have been done. C’est la guerre.
The maypole and Miguel are both absolutely essential to what this story is about. Go back and look at it again, and think about what the yarn, the town, the fungus mind and Volpe all have in common.
It's there, I promise.
It was the reason for writing the tale.
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Berandor
lunatic
Before I do that: Don't use the time constraint as an excuse - you didn't have to write 27 pages in 2 days, you could have just written five. (this may look like it, but I'm not really reprimanding you here)
As for Shogun, that's what came to my mind when I read it. Can't help it
I didn't get the karmic quality of Lillabo's death, I must admit. Also I just feel it very harsh because while she killed Tarnby (in fact, cursed him to a worse fate), I don't regard that as an act punishable by death - in fantasy terms (not Real Life).
Yarn, Maypole, Volpe, Minds - they all depend on women? (I will re-read it momentarily)
I actually like that you chose to complete the story, as I always like risk-taking, and you obviously took one.
Hmm.
Anyway, I hope you're child is well again.
(this may look like it, but I'm not really reprimanding you here)As for Shogun, that's what came to my mind when I read it. Can't help it
I didn't get the karmic quality of Lillabo's death, I must admit. Also I just feel it very harsh because while she killed Tarnby (in fact, cursed him to a worse fate), I don't regard that as an act punishable by death - in fantasy terms (not Real Life).
Yarn, Maypole, Volpe, Minds - they all depend on women?
(I will re-read it momentarily)I actually like that you chose to complete the story, as I always like risk-taking, and you obviously took one.
Hmm.
They're unfinished. Yes, they need to be finished by a woman. But I feel like I miss something. Argh!
Anyway, I hope you're child is well again.
BSF
Explorer
I really want to jump into the conversation here, and I promise I will. No, really! But, I have been doing a lot of gaming writing at the moment and getting by on way too little sleep because of it. It's funny because I read Sialia's story and there are so many similarities between characters. All that from what little Sialia knows of me and my character. It's odd ... and weird. I need to finish up the writing I am doing for game stuff and then I can revisit the stories and tell everyone what I liked/disliked and why.
In any event, I enjoyed both stories!
PS - Sialia, I hope your little one is better. I know that when my little boy gets sick, it makes it harder to concentrate on other things.
In any event, I enjoyed both stories!
PS - Sialia, I hope your little one is better. I know that when my little boy gets sick, it makes it harder to concentrate on other things.
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