Wizard Sleep CSR Ruling

[Rafe]

Keep in mind that the sleep spell imposes two different conditions - slowed and unconscious - and you can only apply the orb of imposition effect on either one of those. So you can't rely on it putting an enemy to sleep and it staying there without fail, though of course even one round of helplessness can be brutal.

Not exactly. If you hit with Sleep, it's slowed (save ends). If it fails that one save, it's unconscious (save ends). You only need to apply the orb of imposition ability to the first since it goes unconscious without needing a second saving throw. However, you're right in that you can't penalize its regular end-of-turn saving throws for it to come awake and back to normal condition.

However... it would still be prone until the start of its next turn since an unconscious anything can't remain standing while unconscious (except for an ooze or something, I suppose).

 

[Plane Sailing]

That means that even at first level if a wise orb wizard does this that BBEG now has a 40% chance to fail the saving throw and that 40% continues on each round. So now with an 18 wisdom Orb Wizard casting sleep, a little less that 50% of your BBEG's will go down without a fight in a couple of rounds. /QUOTE]

Well, I would expect that your BBEG would be an Elite or a Solo, so he's getting a bonus on those saves too, you know

 

[keterys]

Some items in AV also end up screwing things up, too... I believe a kitted out wizard can permanently lock down solos in Paragon tier, now.

 

[aurance]

Here are the things that affect saves for Sleep:

Orb of Imposition wizard class feature (PHB, usually from -4 to -9 or so, 1/enc)
Phrenic Crown (AV p.144, -1/-2/-3 to saves for Wil powers)
Wizard of the Spiral Tower with Cunning Longsword (AV p.67, -2/-3/-4 to saves),
or Orb of Ultimate Imposition (AV p.96, -1 to -6 to Orb of Imposition power, daily)
Spell Focus (PHB, -2)

 

[Caliban]

Not exactly. If you hit with Sleep, it's slowed (save ends). If it fails that one save, it's unconscious (save ends). You only need to apply the orb of imposition ability to the first since it goes unconscious without needing a second saving throw. However, you're right in that you can't penalize its regular end-of-turn saving throws for it to come awake and back to normal condition.

No, you wait to see if the creature falls asleep or not. If it falls asleep, then you hit with the penalty on the unconciousness save. (Using the Orb ability is a free action, you don't have to do it when the spell is cast.)

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

As this is my third posting it's going to be a little short but to whit:

The Wizard Sleep spell can only be 'broken' by the slept creature making its saving throw. Damage, yelling, tickling, cold water, will not affect the magic induced sleep.

That's from a CSR in response to a question I had based on the question of someone else and I was curious as to the real verdict.

Anyway thought in case someone here doesn't use the official forums this might help them if they had a question about it.

The last podcast covered the effects of sleep.

It's a deep, magical sleep that can only be broken by saving, or five minutes after the encounter.

 

[Dracorat]

Totally a house rule, but some of my characters, especially elites/solos are immune to immediate incap effects.

I don't roll nor do any fancy dances. I say simply "He seems to be unaffected by your spell."

 

[Rafe]

Totally a house rule, but some of my characters, especially elites/solos are immune to immediate incap effects.

I don't roll nor do any fancy dances. I say simply "He seems to be unaffected by your spell."

Are the characters also immune to incapacitating effects? If not, isn't that a little one-sided and render a good number of their powers useless? I'm curious what your Wizards use against in Elite/Solo monsters.

Regardless, I would argue that Sleep isn't an immediate incapacitation. It's an immediate slow effect, with the chance for incapacitation.

 

[evilbob]

For elites and solos, there's always the Orb of Karmic Resonance (AV p95). It guarantees the first save fails 1/day. So use this to make sure the thing goes to sleep, and then rely on your Phrenic Crown, Spell Focus, and conspicuously high wisdom mod to keep it there. At the very least, you just bought one action-point-filled round of coup-de-graces.

 

[Mistwell]

Though I think most people are well aware of this, I think it is worth reiterating the sequence of events necessary to actually put someone to sleep with this spell:

1) You have to hit with the spell. A lot of attacks tend to fail at this point.
2) They have to fail their first save vs. slow. Another large chunk of attacks fail at this point.
3) They have to fail their save vs. sleep. Yet another large number of attacks fail at this point.

And while abilities like Orb of Imposition can effect one of those three, it is going to be quite rare that you will get good bonuses for all three.

So, while the spell sometimes seems overpowered, I think in practice it tends to fail often, even for Wizards built with this spell in mind.

Which is why, though my wizard has it in his spell book, has a good wisdom, and has orb of imposition, he still usually prepares the more reliable flaming sphere instead.