Wizards and healing spells

[Greenfield]

Think of researching a spell to be somewhat like praying for something: Sometimes the answer is "No".

Seriously, I'd just say "no", and I'd make it stick.

He asks "Why not", you answer, "Because you are a master of Arcane magic, and healing spells aren't Arcane. That isn't going to change, matter what you research. To get something outside your class, you either need something with massive power, like Wish or Limited Wish, or you need to change your approach. That means changing yourself. You need to expand your mastery, either by a Feat like Arcane Disciple or by taking levels in some other class."

Alternately, if you can't seem to make "No" work, make it a "Yes" that can't be accepted. Include an Exp cost for the casting of such spells. "Normally, a deity provides the life giving energies of such spells. You don't have divine backing or guidance, so you have to provide some life force of your own to fill that role."

I'd scale it based on the cost of making a Scroll of the healing spell he's trying to emulate. Make it clear that the school is Necromancy, just like False Life. If the target is "Caster only", have the EXP cost match the Exp needed for the scroll. Quadruple that if the target is "Creature Touched". Quadruple it again if they want it ranged (no longer than Close), and quadruple it yet again if they want a Mass version with range. Make the spells at least a level higher than its Divine equivalent.

Note that I'm not endorsing this idea, I'm just saying that if you allow him to proceed, make it cost.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Any suggestions how I can keep the player from pursuing this without sounding like a douche?

Tell him that according to the way magic works in your game world, healing is not possible with arcane magic. Say it nicely but firmly. Attach an in-game rationale based on how your world works if you like. The progenitors of the earth gave healing to the gods and only they have it. Something like that.

Seriously, you can just as easily ban fire spells, summoning spells, divinations, or any other spell you think is inappropriate. You're in charge. You decide what magic can and cannot do, not the books. If you want to say no to wizardly healing and your players can't accept the decision, you have bigger problems than wizardly healing.

***

The tangential discussion of whether wizards should be allowed to heal is also an interesting one. I don't see it as being a big balance issue, personally. Healing is rarely a valuable option in combat, and out-of-combat healing is easily done with or without a wizard doing it. If I were a wizard, I'd memorize more useful spells anyway.

 

[nijineko]

but then you have to explain or change bards and adepts.

personally, i don't think clerics should be able to heal. unless their deities portfolio has healing in it, or they choose healing per the alternate method that does not require specifying a deity, that is.

it doesn't make sense that all clerics regardless of persuasion or belief all get access to healing (if good or at least neutral). likewise for inflict spells, for that matter. unless it makes sense for the portfolio in question, they shouldn't be able to spontaneous it either.

instead of access to (virtually) all divine spells, spell selection should be based around portfolios.

 

[radja]

I think there was also one of the symbul's spells that healed. dont have my books here, but it was something like a 5th lvl spell that would convert uncast spells to healing, 1d6 per spell level.

 

[Drowbane]

I do not see this as a problem mechanically. The Wizard wants to heal? Great, let him do it. Every Cure-line spell cast (in combat or out of combat) is one fewer Battlefield Control, Save or Die, or Direct Damage spell cast later.

Fluff dictates that healing is the province of the divine caster. The guys who get on their kness and beg gods for miracles. If you change the mechanics to allow Arcanists to do this through arcane knowledge then this is a huge change to the generic setting. If it is one wizard who can do this, then the rest of the Arcane World should wonder why and how.

Either way, try it out. Let us know how it goes for you.

 

[Cadence]

Seriously, I'd just say "no", and I'd make it stick.

He asks "Why not", you answer, "Because you are a master of Arcane magic, and healing spells aren't Arcane... . You need to expand your mastery, either by a Feat like Arcane Disciple or by taking levels in some other class."

Except (as @nijineko notes) that Bards are arcane and have the cure spells... and Wizards are the masters of arcane.

Hence my question last page: Is anything lost by saying Bards do bardic magic instead of arcane or divine? (Would that stop bards from doing something else important?)

 

[Gargoyle]

Except (as @nijineko notes) that Bards are arcane and have the cure spells... and Wizards are the masters of arcane.

Hence my question last page: Is anything lost by saying Bards do bardic magic instead of arcane or divine? (Would that stop bards from doing something else important?)

Yes, but wizards are not bards. A bard's arcane magic isn't the same type of magic as a wizards, just like a wizard's isn't the same as a warlock. Arcane magic isn't all the same for every arcane caster. Arcane is a broad generalization encompassing many different types of magic, thus the different classes.

IMO the most important thing here is preserving the flavor of the game (or more importantly your campaign). If a player came to me with this request, I would give them the option of researching arcane healing spells only if the flavor of it felt like a wizard spell. My thinking is that a wizard spell that heals has a cost. It should take hp or some other resource from the wizard to power the spell (Con, hp, hit dice, healing surges, whatever suites your edition), not necessarily at a 1 for 1 ratio. A warlock version might do the same, but from an ally. But I like the general approach of the OP's solution, make it lower level, just need to make it so that wizard's aren't better healers than bards.

 

[Cadence]

Yes, but wizards are not bards. A bard's arcane magic isn't the same type of magic as a wizards, just like a wizard's isn't the same as a warlock. Arcane magic isn't all the same for every arcane caster. Arcane is a broad generalization encompassing many different types of magic, thus the different classes.

It actually never occurred to me to simply replace "Wizards are the masters of arcane magic" in my brain with "Arcane and divine magic are big umbrella classifications. Wizards are the most flexible of arcane casters, arguably even more than how clerics are the most flexible of divine casters. Just like clerics don't have access to all divine magic, wizards don't have access to all of the arcane."

That was easy.

 

[jefgorbach]

Easy enough to justify under RAW.

According to RAW, "Despite these different ways that characters use to learn or prepare their spells, when it comes to casting them, the spells are very much alike." implying Arcane and Divine are simply differing ways of understanding and applying the Fundamental Energy known as Magic, thus a Wizard desiring to learn a Divine Healing spell simply needs to succeed a Spellcraft(15+spell level) to identify the desired divine energy pattern, then a Spellcraft(30) to "Understand a strange or unique magical effect" in order to duplicate that pattern using his normal Arcane procedures. Once known, he can add it to his spellbook normally.

Likewise, RAW's examples imply Arcane versions of Divine spells should be of equal level (ie: Animate Objects, Astral Projection, Eagle’s Splendor, Spell Turning, etc.)

 

[Crothian]

Any suggestions how I can keep the player from pursuing this without sounding like a douche?

Let him do it. Then have everyone's healing spells slowly become less effective. Make this a world wide event. Then have arcane magic in general become less effective. Have the PCs investigate this and send them on all kinds of adventures to lost holy men and sages and ancient men of wisdom. Have them adventure to other planes of existence to the land of the gods where they find out an ancient pact was made by the gods as they divided the various spheres 'f influence they would have as they created the universe. Let the wizard discover that his act of learning arcane healing in this way has broken the very laws of existence the gods first made and because of it everything is being slowly unmade. Don't let there be a fix, let the player know that his actions destroyed everything and then refuse to DM D&D every again because that player ruined it for you.

Is it a bit over the top and dramatic? Hell ya, but it could be so much fun.