WotC may have sent the Pinkertons to a magic leakers home. Update: WotC confirms it and has a response.

[darjr]

Yeah. If he held off releasing his videos until the cards were officially released, there'd have been no issue. It was trying to take advantage of the error that precipitated these events.

He did nothing that deserved the response.

 

[tomBitonti]

Eh, this is not a copyright issue. A review is an allowed “fair” use. Also, a physical product carries certain rights.

If he had digitized an image in full resolution and put that out that would be infringing.

I thought he received the wrong product? In such a case it seems he is not legally entitled to retain the product. If he is any kind of real Magic fan he would have known exactly what he received.

I still think the agents were unreasonable, based on the description of what they did. But that doesn’t absolve the guy.

TomB

 

[Umbran]

I’ve got a feeling that they’re trying to be nice partially because of PR, and partially as a please-don’t-sue-us tactic, but yeah.

That doesn't make a lot of sense.

"Please don't sue us" actions generally happen after the event, when Department B learns that Department A screwed up, and is trying to patch things over.

But, my understanding is that the agents were prepared with the number, and the call happened while they were still there - the call was a planned and prepared part of the action. If, at the time of the action fear of lawsuit is a significant concern, then you just don't do the action.

Lawsuit is a modern boogeyman. Duffers on the internet raise lawsuit as a possibility any time they feel something was wrong, without much concern as to whether the law supports such action. My understanding is that lawsuit generally requires more than a negative, unpleasant interaction - it requires demonstrable harm done to the plaintiff that could be redressed by the suit.
I am not sure anything he's said has indicated any such harm occurred.

 

[Olrox17]

That doesn't make a lot of sense.

"Please don't sue us" actions generally happen after the event, when Department B learns that Department A screwed up, and is trying to patch things over.

But, my understanding is that the agents were prepared with the number, and the call happened while they were still there - the call was a planned and prepared part of the action. If, at the time of the action fear of lawsuit is a significant concern, then you just don't do the action.

Lawsuit is a modern boogeyman. Duffers on the internet raise lawsuit as a possibility any time they feel something was wrong, without much concern as to whether the law supports such action. My understanding is that lawsuit generally requires more than a negative, unpleasant interaction - it requires demonstrable harm done to the plaintiff that could be redressed by the suit.
I am not sure anything he's said has indicated any such harm occurred.

I may have used the wrong term there. Filing a police report is probably more in line with what I meant to say. I know it’s what I would do if goons came to my door, forced their way in, and made threats.

 

[Cordwainer Fish]

We know that this is not a copyright issue because Wizards did not file a DMCA request; they sent a goon squad.

We know that the cards were not stolen property because Wizards did not call the cops; they sent a goon squad.

 

[Cadence]

I may have used the wrong term there. Filing a police report is probably more in line with what I meant to say. I know it’s what I would do if goons came to my door, forced their way in, and made threats.

Just to make sure I haven't missed something...

Putting the foot in the door to stop it being shut feels bad enough to call the cops to me. Did they actually "force their way in"?

Massively stretching the truth about legal consequences to indimidate someone into doing something seems like it deserves bad PR. When I read "made threats" I picture either blackmail or threatening assault. Did they threaten blackmail or threaten assault here? (My reading of Nero Wolfe books has not helped me figure out what blackmail actually is).

 

[Umbran]

I may have used the wrong term there. Filing a police report is probably more in line with what I meant to say. I know it’s what I would do if goons came to my door, forced their way in, and made threats.

I have some problems with the way the language and retelling of events has changed over time.

Originally, Mr. Cannon said they put their foot in the door to keep it from closing. Then Gizmodo tells us he said they "...'forced themselves' partially through the door...". Now it is just "forced their way in". Every time it becomes less specific, it sounds worse.

We are told that they mentioned possible legal repercussions. That becomes "making threats", again, making it more abstract, and inviting the audience to fill in the blanks. I understand why that happens - the more outraged we are, the more we engage with the people who are reporting. We reward the escalation with our attention.

But I am not a fan of the manipulation.

 

[tomBitonti]

We know that this is not a copyright issue because Wizards did not file a DMCA request; they sent a goon squad.

We know that the cards were not stolen property because Wizards did not call the cops; they sent a goon squad.

Not being "stolen property" does not mean that he is entitled to keep the cards. He doesn't have to send the cards back. The friendly thing to do is call the sender and tell them of the incorrect delivery. The sender has the burden of retrieving the cards. My (unsure) understanding is that after a reasonable amount of time he will be entitled to keep the cards.

I don't know the legal ins and outs of retrieving the cards, as to what would happen if he refused to hand over the cards. I guessing this falls under "repossession", which is almost certainly a well developed field with numerous and specific rules that vary by state. The matter seems to be a civil matter, which would seem to preclude many uses of force. But really this will depend on the rules at his location.

TomB

 

[Dausuul]

Eh, this is not a copyright issue. A review is an allowed “fair” use. Also, a physical product carries certain rights.

If he had digitized an image in full resolution and put that out that would be infringing.

He digitized images in somewhat crappy resolution and poor lighting and put them out. It's not as clear-cut a violation as if they were 600-DPI scans in perfect color, but it's a lot more than just a "review."

 

[Clint_L]

As others have said if the YouTuber had changed nothing and WotC sent a lawyer and or sued him or just talked to him we’d probably know nothing about this.

So...I am trying very hard to wrap my head around this idea that suing him would somehow have been a kinder, gentler way to handle the situation.

WotC literally did one of the things that you are suggesting: they just talked to him. For whatever reasons, he was not responding to other attempts to communicate, so they sent investigators who literally put him on the phone with WotC, after which the situation was resolved without any lawsuits, and with him even getting product that WotC did not owe him.

This is a guy who somehow came up with their IP and was leaking it to the internet, but they took him at his (eventual) word, gave him a pat on the head, and a nice stack of magic cards. Yet they are the villains here because "the Pinkertons." This does not make any ethical sense to me at all.

Edit: WotC did not create this situation. This guy somehow got his hands on their IP, and was immediately trying to monetize it. They treated him with kid gloves. He is not a victim.