Would an Ancient Green Dragon consider adopting an orphaned copper wyrmling?

Tony Vargas

Legend
In traditional D&D lore and setting... what might go down in a meeting between an ancient green dragon and an orphaned young copper wyrmling?
Traditionally, D&D dragons are embodiments of extreme alignments, so light snack.

Less traditionally, dragons are sentient beings, so could have free will, in which case anything might happen, depending on the personalities involved.
 

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There's no reason why it couldn't care for the copper wyrmling. Perhaps it lost a child of its own to adventurers and takes the copper in as means to replace the loss. The copper wyrmling's personality might rub off on the green, or vice versa. It could also be that the green truly cares for the copper wyrmling. It treats others, like adventurers, as a typical evil dragon would but when it comes to the wyrmling it acts in a compassionate but stern manner. It makes it more interesting to have the dragon have a soft spot for the wyrmling instead of just saying outright that it kills it because it might be a threat, it misses out on what I feel are some interesting opportunities for the game.

Well by default it would hate it. Added on Dragons don't care much for their kids, once they are self sufficient the typical dragon attitude towards baby dragons is that they are on their own. And it only takes a few days for them to be so. Dragons view other Dragons as rivals for the most part and are isolationists by nature from other dragons.

The Copper Wyrmling is likely already self sufficient and can work on establishing a territory and hoard. A Ancient Green would not want any other Dragons in it's territory and knows that other Dragons are intelligent enough to not be easily manipulated by it.

As well as the fact that a Green would not care much if it lost a child, unless you want to change the nature of chromatic dragons.
 

cbwjm

Seb-wejem
Well by default it would hate it. Added on Dragons don't care much for their kids, once they are self sufficient the typical dragon attitude towards baby dragons is that they are on their own. And it only takes a few days for them to be so. Dragons view other Dragons as rivals for the most part and are isolationists by nature from other dragons.

The Copper Wyrmling is likely already self sufficient and can work on establishing a territory and hoard. A Ancient Green would not want any other Dragons in it's territory and knows that other Dragons are intelligent enough to not be easily manipulated by it.

As well as the fact that a Green would not care much if it lost a child, unless you want to change the nature of chromatic dragons.

Why would a green not care if it lost its child? I don't have the 5e books with me but reading the old 2e monstrous manual shows that chromatic dragons are actually very protective of their young. Unless they've decided to change that over editions, I'd say that it is valid to say they care for them to some extent.
 

Why would a green not care if it lost its child? I don't have the 5e books with me but reading the old 2e monstrous manual shows that chromatic dragons are actually very protective of their young. Unless they've decided to change that over editions, I'd say that it is valid to say they care for them to some extent.

It's sort of an interesting system. Dragons want to reproduce and increase the size of their race, but don't much care for the young. They are protective of the eggs and defenseless newborns, Dragons even willing to give up their isolationist nature to mate and raising the eggs together. (Though Blacks and Whites are likely to have one of the mates leave to let the other take care of them on their own.) Once the Wyrmling is self sufficient the parent wants the young dragon gone within the few years of being together.

A newly hatched dragon has a full array of abilities. Although inferior to those of a young dragon, these abilities are sufficient for the wyrmling to take care of itself, at least against relatively weak threats and predators. Although an emerging wyrmling is sodden and somewhat awkward, it can run within hours of hatching and can fly within a day or two. A wyrmling’s senses are fully acute, and—due to the interweaving of a dragon’s centers of memory and instinct—it is born with a substantial amount of its parents’ knowledge imprinted in its mind.

Even so, a dragon is not born with the full memories of prior generations. Rather, a wyrmling has a grasp of the generalities of the world and of its own identity. It knows how to move, how to use its innate abilities, who and what its parents are, and—perhaps most important—how to view the world around it. This awareness is one reason that even the youngest dragons are capable of surviving to adulthood. It is also why a sense of superiority and arrogance is ubiquitous among chromatic dragons: They are born already knowing that they’re among the most powerful creatures in the world (or at least will be, after they mature).

Parents might accompany a wyrmling on its earliest hunts, to protect it and to make certain it knows how to hunt efficiently. Wyrmlings left to fend for themselves and wyrmlings that don’t have protective parents still must leave the nest within a few days of hatching to find food. By the third or fourth foray, even solicitous dragon parents let wyrmlings hunt on their own, lest the wyrmlings grow too dependent on parental assistance.

Wyrmlings spend a few years dwelling with one or both of their parents. Some parents welcome this time as an opportunity to teach their offspring lessons beyond its inherited knowledge: the best areas to hunt, what to look for in a lair, how to begin building a hoard, and other knowledge a growing dragon needs to gain. Other parents look on wyrmlings as necessary evils: competitors for resources and for space in the lair that must nevertheless be tolerated for a brief time. Only evil dragons that lack any parenting instinct—in dragonkind, a mild form of insanity—consider forcing a wyrmling to leave the nest early. This condition is most common in black dragons but rare even among them.

A wyrmling whose parents abandoned it before it hatched or could not care for it after it hatched takes longer to hone its abilities. It still has the advantage of its inherited instincts, but the lack of a teacher makes perfecting its abilities an arduous task. Some wyrmlings manage to do so on their own, through trial and error. Others seek out mentors of their own kind. Even an evil dragon might willingly take on a short-term apprentice if the younger dragon shows adequate respect, such as gifts of treasure scavenged or stolen from any source the young dragon can manage. These relationships rarely last more than a few months, because the older dragon inevitably begins to view the younger one as a rival. The younger dragon either departs or ends up on the menu.

Although wyrmlings are small and weak by dragon standards, a wyrmling is roughly the size of a large wolf or a full-grown human. Even at their youngest, dragons have few natural predators.

The relationship between a dragon and its fullgrown offspring depends on the individuals in question. For the most part, dragon parents and children retain a loving relationship; though they do not share territories, they harbor affection for each other and render assistance if the other is in danger. A rare few go the opposite route, treating their parents or offspring as competitors for resources—highly dangerous competitors, since each knows the other so well—and end up violently at odds. The majority of chromatic dragons fall between the two extremes: A vague fondness exists between parents and offspring, but neither is likely to jump into action if the other needs help. They react to any intrusion with as much violence as they would if the invader were a stranger.

Pretty much Chromatics are not super fond of having other Dragons even their kids in the area. For an unrelated Dragon particularly a hated Metallic i think it would go bad.
 
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Coroc

Hero
In any Setting but Eberron this is Close to impossible, the ancient green would adopt the copper wyrmling as an Addition to his breakfast.

In Eberron afaik Dragon Color does not mark alignment like in other Settings, so there it might be possible.

Reverse the Colors, and then it gets interesting, does the good copper Dragon adopt the evil green Dragon?

You still might want to make the Dragon a freshly hatched one, even youngest Dragons are a worthy Opponent to a pc and might fight instead of being carried around.

Two more things:

Reptilians in most cases do not care much for their offspring, thats why they lay many eggs so some will survive. With D&D Dragons this might be different.

The second question: Would the ancient green be ok when approached by the Party (asuming they are of good alignment) or will it consume the Party after it has swallowed the copper hatchling?
 

I think it all depends on your call as a DM – are dragons inherently good and evil, or can they be raised differently? My take is that dragons are born good and born evil, so there'd be little reason for the copper wyrmling to be anything other than an enemy of the green dragon.

But if one were to assume the opposite stance, I'd say that the green dragon would relish the opportunity to corrupt the copper wyrmling.
 

Vymair

First Post
Any chromatic except Green, I think it goes badly. With the Green, I can see it viewing it as a challenge to corrupt the Copper dragon and turn into a tool for the Green's machinations. It's not like the Copper is going to be a threat to the Green for centuries, it can afford to play the waiting game to see if it's possible to corrupt it.
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
Reptilians in most cases do not care much for their offspring, thats why they lay many eggs so some will survive. With D&D Dragons this might be different.

The important part of that is "in most cases." One exception are crocodilians. For example, see the American Alligator.

Social Structure
Female alligators usually remain in a small area. Males can occupy areas greater than two square miles. Both males and females extend their ranges during the breeding season. Young alligators remain in the area where they are hatched and where their mother protects them. After two to three years, they leave that area in search of food or when driven out by larger alligators.
Source: Smithsonian’s National Zoo & Conservation Biology Institute
https://nationalzoo.si.edu/animals/american-alligator


Pythons and boas will protect their eggs until hatching but the African rock python goes further than that:

To date, the African rock python (Python sebae) is the only snake in the world that actually “cares” for its young. Typically depositing a clutch of 20 to 90 eggs, female rock pythons have long been known to encircle and vigorously defend their egg clutches until they hatch. This is a tactic many boid snake species perform (Mehrtens 64).

Before the early 21st century, it was thought rock python’s parental care ended there. But new discoveries suggest females of the species keep their young near them for more than four months after hatching. These young snakes enjoy their mother’s protection from potential predators. Few birds of prey or monitor lizards will move upon a 20-inch-long hatching rock python lying close within the coils of its 17-foot-long mother. Field research herpetologists speculate the warmth absorbed by the mother python during the day helps to sustain the young snakes’ high body temperatures as she coils about them at night. Mother snakes might be a rare occurrence, but they exist.
SOURCE: Reptile Magazine, http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Reptile-Care-For-Beginners/Snake-Myths-And-Facts/

There is evidence of some pre-historic reptiles taking care of their young: http://www.eartharchives.org/articles/reptile-fossils-show-mother-caring-for-babies/

Of course these are all example of Alligators taking care of THEIR young. They are likely to eat another alligator's young. About 6-7% of American alligator young are cannibalized by other alligators: https://www.livescience.com/14368-cannibalism-baby-alligators-florida.html

But there are examples of communities of reptiles protecting all member's young:

Green iguanas share nesting areas with as many as hundreds of other iguanas and construct complex burrow systems that are continuously improved upon. Babies hatching from eggs look around and duck back into the egg while observing other babies to determine if it is safe to emerge. They get excited and jump up and down when they see other babies emerging. Siblings will stay together for months, rubbing against each other frequently and wagging their tails like dogs. They sleep together and groom each other and walk in a line with a chosen leader. They rub each others' heads before returning to their family's territory, watching for predators
SOURCE: World Animal Foundation, http://www.worldanimalfoundation.org/articles/article/8948361/187806.htm

Also, in D&D we are dealing with highly intelligent, magical creatures. If they are truly fully solitary beings after hatching, then how do they learn language? They may not have dragon cities, but for huge flying creatures, flying over to the next mountain is like going next door. Just because they don't live with each other doesn't mean they do not socialize, keep in touch, and look out for one another.
 

Also, in D&D we are dealing with highly intelligent, magical creatures. If they are truly fully solitary beings after hatching, then how do they learn language? They may not have dragon cities, but for huge flying creatures, flying over to the next mountain is like going next door. Just because they don't live with each other doesn't mean they do not socialize, keep in touch, and look out for one another.

As I just posted a chunk about their lifestyle we know the answer to this. They are born with language and knowledge. They still still live with their parent for a short while. But it's not a long time. Some dragons do socialize, but for most chromatics they never want another Dragon entering their territory even if it's their parent or child.
 

Ath-kethin

Elder Thing
From the Monster Manual: "The most cunning and treacherous of true dragons, green dragons use misdirection and trickery to get the upper hand against their enemies. Nasty tempered and thoroughly evil, they take special pleasure in subverting and corrupting the good-hearted."

Greens are sneaky and smart and love sowing pain and suffering. The long-term benefits of a corrupted "good" dragon far outweigh any temporary hunger pangs it might feel.
 

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