Would you allow this paladin in your game? (new fiction added 11/11/08)

[Agback]

Two problems here: (a) this rests on the supposition of a monolithic priesthood; (b) why can't they also originate from ascetics, lay leaders and holy warriors? In medieval Europe, often the teachings of mendicant friars were more respected and received with greater authority than those of secular clergy whose job it actually was to communicate the beliefs to the people.

Hyperfine nit-pick, here. The job of the secular clergy was primarily to dispense the sacraments and to exercise jurisdiction (it was this latter that allowed them to absolve sins). They were also supposed to teach, but it was a tertiary role for the,

As for the wandering friars (Franciscans and Dominicans), they were invented specifically to preach to the ordinary people, to make good the doctrinal weakness of the secular clergy (specifically, in Southern France about 1200 AD, when the sermons fo the secular clergy were perceived in Rome as having been ineffective against the Albigensian 'heresy'). The very intent of the foundation of the orders of mendicant friars was that their teachings should be more respected and received with greater authority than those of the secular clergy.

 

[Agback]

If I'm going to be candid, I'm not sure I can fully imagine what's its like to be, say, Canadian --wait, you all like something called back-bacon, right?-- let alone a citizen of some quasi-Medieval feudal state.

Don't you think it might be fun to try?

 

[Gronin]

I voted yes, I like to see backgrounds that take the traditional classes out of the box. I would have certain reservations about some aspects but nothing major.

As an aside... have you read a novel by John Steakley called VAMPIRE$, I think you will see a great deal of Cedric in Jack Crow.... especially the fatalistic, cynical attitude.

Edit: just in case any of you have seen the movie that this book spawned, don't hold that against it. The movie was absolute garbage... the book is worth a read.

 

[Agback]

paladins must always be lawful and good. Leaving that alignment means losing one's powers. Now these can also be lost by ticking off one's patron God,

Can they? By the core rulebooks? I know they can by 'campaign rules' in Greyhawk (though not for all paladins) and in Faerûn, but Sir Cedric is not necessarily from one of those settings.

I have launched a thread in the D&D Rules forum for this digression.

 

[Agback]

Under RAW a paladin does not need a god. However godless paladins still lose their paladin powers immediately if they commit an evil act.

A good way to think about it is that paladin powers require a certain kind of spiritual purity that can be disrupted by the paladin doing an evil act.

No micromanagement required whether they have patron gods they serve or not.

True, but by the same token the gods have no power either to define the paladin's code or to take away the paladin's powers. By the rules, the paladin's powers go away by themselves if he or she ever ceases to qualify as a paladin, wilfully does an evil act, or grossly violates the code of conduct. The god has no power to take them away under any other circumstance, nor does the god have any power to waive the suspension of abilities. Sure, the paladin's god can provide an Atonement spell through one of his or her clerics (or otherwise). But so can any other god.

 

[Agback]

Why would a god choose as his/her champion a man who has no faith in their patronage?

Perhaps no god did.

In Greyhawk there is a whole category of 'paladins by choice', distinct from teh paladins called by gods. The core rules allude to paladin's 'answering a call' and 'accepting a destiny', ut make no mention of their receiving their powers from a god. Cedric could well be a paladin in spite of a god, not because of it. Paladins have to be lawful and good and follow the code. They do not require divine patronage. This is explicit in the PHB.

 

[Agback]

Legalising prostitution doesn't make it right.

Outlawing it doesn't make it wrong, either.

 

[Agback]

Hey, here's an idea (for you and others who are enjoying Cedric's continuing adventures) - how about making a couple of suggestions for scenarios/situations you would be interested to see him in?

Well, supposing he loses that unwinnable battle. And gets killed. And his body is dismembered, mutilated, and destroyed. So of course he goes to Heaven.

But his name is not forgotten, and in a decade or two someone tries to get him back with True Resurrection. Does he go back to the unending fight? Or enjoy his eternal reward? His choice.

 

[Agback]

As an aside, I've always defined it as treating someone as an object. For instance, you understand that a pen is for writing and you are more than willing to pick it up and use it to do so whenever you want because it doesn't have feelings or desires. If you need to write something, you find the nearest pen and use it to write.

A similar thing with people. If you objectify them, you don't care about THEM as a person, you could care less about their feelings or desires. If you need sex, you find the nearest woman that you are willing to tolerate and use them to have sex.

So you think that I objectify my doctor? I don't know her, or really care much about her as a person. But if I need medical treatment I find the nearest doctor whose skills I trust and use them to get well. Same with my chiropractor, plumbers….

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

The temple of Pelor couldn't ever get the moxie together to organise a Regenerate spell effect? I would have thought it was a cheap price for getting a paladin back on the warpath. Probably cheaper than 60 years of board and nursing.

See... this is one of the many instances where the D&D rules make storytelling unnecessarily hard.

I think it takes a LOT away from the story when you have Regenerate and Raise Dead and what not treated as parts of the story rather than as the gamist constructs they actually are.

Part of the problem is that they insist upon reagents and gold piece costs (tangible in the story) for what should be a purely abstract benefit to the gaming construct that is your character.

Sorry for yet another digression :\