Would you get behind Race levels?

[the Jester]

I am a HUGE fan of racial paragon classes, introduced in 3e's UA and continuing with racial paragon paths in 4e.

 

[Mengu]

4e increased racial emphasis with racial utility power swaps, and racial paragon paths. From the sounds of it, it looks like they have the 3e approach to multiclassing, so Monte's Arcana Unearthed/Evolved is probably a good example of how racial progression might work in D&DN. You can be a level 8 dwarf fighter, or you can be a Fighter 6/Dwarf 2. This way, you can put as much or little emphasis on your race as you feel like. Of course we probably won't see this approach until racial splat books come out.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I'm not sure what game Monte played but 2e kits had little to do with your background and a lot to do with transforming the rather narrow class options into a much broader class system.

The Loremaster kit took the Bard class and effectively created a neighboring Loremaster class which share a lot of class features with the Bard class.

The Pathfinder kit took the Ranger class and created more of an Archer class which we later saw in 4th edition as the archer build for Rangers.

Those and most kits changed the rules of your class enough that you were really playing a new class. Kits were a form of class proliferation that had nothing to do with character story/background.

The more I explore the ideas of class proliferation the more appealing they sound.

Strongly depends on the class.

Thief kits were indeed more fluff and slight changes to your skills. Bard kits did a lot more, but also changed your skill packages.

@ class levels: no! Maybe only if it is implemented right... I could imagine having OD&D racial classes which you could use, but i don´t really see sense in it...

@ classes level with your character: 4e introduced racial utilites... when you think about the time, when they were introduced, we could actually see this idea in D&Dnext. And In my opinion alternative theme powers and racial utilities are a nice way to make your background count and to customize your character. So I am all for beeing able to chose racial features at higher levels... (but not competing with gaining an attack or damage bonus etc...)

 

[Jack7]

I'd like to see something very different than levels to advance/develop both Race and Theme.

 

[Knightfall]

I am a HUGE fan of racial paragon classes, introduced in 3e's UA and continuing with racial paragon paths in 4e.

I had the same thought. What I'd like for 5e is racial-paragon themes. The themes would give you options that you could select but that you wouldn't have to. The themes would allow you to pick the racial traits you want improve and focus on.

• Dwarven Paragon
• Elven Paragon
• Gnome Paragon
• Halfling Paragon
• Human Paragon
• Orc Paragon

A Dwarven Paragon could focus on crafting, endurance, stonecunning, rune magic, and/or dwarven weaponry. An Elven Paragon could focus on archery, celerity, wood lore, high magic, and/or swordplay. Etc, etc.

 

[GM Dave]

WotC_GregB announced on his blog

Fri Feb 3

'Racial Importance by Monte Cook

Racial choice comes into play when you make your character. How important are mechanics that support your racial choice? Come read what Monte says about this topic, then vote in a poll so that we can see what you think.'


Looks like Friday we will get some more information on the thoughts of race implementation and then there will be poll to give feedback on what they are suggesting.

 

[Falling Icicle]

Huh? I am TOTALLY about keeping the options from interfering with each other. How does gaining more racial abilities over time change your option of character? I certainly wouldn't suggest that every level in Dwarf give you a bonus, but only if you're a fighter. The abilities or skill bonuses you get would have to be racial themed and not step on the toes of class or theme, or at least not too much.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you. I'm sure you have the best of intentions. What I was trying to say was that even if you try very hard to make all of the racial options balanced, some are just going to be better than others for certain classes, which would go even further in encouraging people to play certain race/class combinations over others than they already are. Maybe it's possible to make abilities that are close to equally valuable for all classes, but that would be a very difficult thing to accomplish, IMHO.

 

[Number48]

I'm not offended, but I still don't get where you're coming from. If my higher level Dwarf has gained abilities to sense distance underground, direction, bonuses to stonecraft, bonuses to appraise, gemcrafting bonuses to social skills involving Dwarves, which class does that funnel him to?

 

[Falling Icicle]

I'm not offended, but I still don't get where you're coming from. If my higher level Dwarf has gained abilities to sense distance underground, direction, bonuses to stonecraft, bonuses to appraise, gemcrafting bonuses to social skills involving Dwarves, which class does that funnel him to?

Aren't those the things that dwarves usually get at 1st level? What kinds of things do you think dwarves (or any race) should get at higher level? And are we talking about these things being automatically gained, or available with feats? I wouldn't really mind having such things be feats, as it's easier to balance that way. They're available if people want to pay for them, but then that's something else they're not getting instead.

[Edit] I think what your proposing would be better handled as part of the theme system. I'm sure there will be racial requirements on certain themes, and those could provide the kind of racially specific benefits you're looking for.

 

[Number48]

That's fine, but I respectfully disagree.