wraithstrike & multiple attacks.

[krupintupple]

hey gang,

just a quick question - let's say i'm a 6 fighter / 3 wizard and i decide to use wraithstrike. my concern is that as i'm able to swiftly cast it, i can then let all of my attacks be treated as touch attacks, so i'm probably going to power attack for 7, which translates into a +14 damage boost on my greatsword.

i realize that this situation won't come up often, since people that can actually cast wraithstrike usually don't have a good BAB, but is this not a shade unbalanced? i also realize that 9th level characters can do far far more damage than this on average, so i'm unsure if there's really a complaint at all.

another point, would anyone allow this spell to go on the list of hexblades and duskblades, two very melee-y types, who probably benefit from it more than assassins and mages?

 

[Dandu]

Wraithstrike is a tad powerful for its level, yes.

 

[krupintupple]

Wraithstrike is a tad powerful for its level, yes.

So, would it be more acceptable if it merely allowed for one attack in the next round to be made as a touch attack, or to bump the level by 2, but keep it as is?

 

[Dandu]

I'm actually uncertain on the subject as I'm not sure where the best point of balance is.

There's also the argument that it's fine because melee tends to have trouble staying relevant at later levels and could stand having a bone or two thrown its way. I mean... just consider a ten-headed Hydra (CR9) which gets 10 attacks per round at +14 to hit each, for 1d10+5 damage each, along with 108 HP and Regeneration 20. It's pretty tough on meatshields and you really want to take it out ASAP.

Let me put it this way; it's probably more balanced than most of what's on the Cleric, Druid, or Sorc/Wiz spell lists. If you haven't been having problems with spells that disable, mind crush, brainwash, bypass, negate, or otherwise screw over the enemy, you probably won't have any issues with a spell that ultimately just adds some numbers onto the fighter's DPS.

 

[akbearfoot]

I really hate the spell Wraithstrike since it totally breaks regular melee mechanics and thus yields itself to lots of abuse. Inevitably, a munchkin will eventually ask the DM 'See the formula says use activated Wraithstrike costs X(where X is completely unrepresentative of the actual value of the item)

However it is still very much a 1 trick pony type strategy. I consider a fighter 6/wizard 3 to be an extremely weak class combination. Actually thats just about the worst class combo there is IMO. Even a monk9 or bard9 would be better, and I consider those to be weak in general as well.

 

[Hassassin]

I don't think it's too overpowered. Compare it to Scorching Ray (hardly the best 2nd level spell), which is a ranged touch spell dealing 8d6 (average 28) at 7th level. Wraithstrike + full attack can deal more damage at 8th level, but is much more restrictive. If it gives some extra juice to a Wiz/Ftr multiclass, that's fine by me.

BTW, I wouldn't allow it in items except for scrolls and wands. That's true for many personal spells, like True Strike.

 

[Dandu]

Custom items are always a problem. Fortunately, they are governed by item creation guidelines, not rules.

 

[Trance-Zg]

It's not overpowered at all.

Maybe if you look for 1round fight once a day it is overpowered, but 1min fight(10 attacks, maybe 2-3 of them full, you would get more juice out of bull's strength.

 

[krupintupple]

Yeah, I'm thinking that if any melee-type is willing to actually be able to use it via spellcasting, it's probably a leg-up that an otherwise weak option needs. Thanks all!

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

As a DM, if my played wanted to take 3 levels of Wizard after 6 levels of Fighter so he could give himself a trick or three to be more effective in specific areas, I'd clap him on the back and say "More power to ya, but realize you're making a few things tough for yourself."

I'd have no objections as a DM, but I'd want to make sure my player is certain what he or she is doing.