D&D 4E You Don't Need a Healer in 4E... Yeah Right!

[keterys]

I'd disagree. Both systems need a bit of work without a healer. Potions and use magic device with wands serve as a cleric in 3.5e. The major change was wealth to balance this. Which seems to be what no leader parties in 4e need as well.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread my group did this a few times in 3.5e. It's not the optimal, but it isnt in 4e either.

It's not optimal in 4e, but nor is being without a defender, striker, or controller.

My group is still chugging along just fine (about to hit 12th) without a Leader.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

Should I have the Healing Potions as loot/free or make them buy them?
Play the monsters stupider?
Should I not scale the encounters for 6 players, leaving it as is for 5?

Which option would gain the most for balance and fun.

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

PS: I can't believe how "swingy" this version is. Not a complaint, mind you. Just seems way more dependant on dice roles, which has been part of the problem for my group. The guy playing the Fighter and running the Paladin when the original player had to go, failed 6 saving throws in a row to not die when they were both dropped below zero. And the Fighter even had the Human bonus to saves. Hmm thats not swingy, just bad luck I guess.

Healing potions are standard treasure, and they should be getting upwards of 1 per person per level for free just by adventuring. As they only cost 50g, I don't really see why they wouldn't have several per character.

I've noticed the complete opposite as far as "swingyness". The poorer your decisions, the more often you get killed or dropped. I bet dollars to donuts that fighter has a big 2-hander and purely offensive powers, then he goes charging out by himself and soaks up 6 attacks before the rest of the party even takes a turn.

Humans don't get a bonus to saves, btw. They get a bonus to defenses. Only halflings get a bonus to saves.

 

[Iron Sky]

Humans don't get a bonus to saves, btw. They get a bonus to defenses. Only halflings get a bonus to saves.

Humans get a bonus to saving throws when they get the feat that gives one to them.

 

[vazanar]

It's not optimal in 4e, but nor is being without a defender, striker, or controller.

My group is still chugging along just fine (about to hit 12th) without a Leader.

Of course 4e can live without a healer as 3.5 did. The party just needs to handle some things diffrently. My group currently has no controller and seems fine, just a little weak against high minion numbers. I do think most groups would feel the leader missing more than the other three.

 

[katahn]

My group has two dragonborn in it, no controllers, and between the two of them (one defender, one striker) they can do wonders for thinning out minion numbers with their breath weapons.

I did go ahead and include an NPC warlord in the group, thus far he's barely needed to do anything, but we're also only just starting off in H1.

 

[vazanar]

Our groups dragonborn in H1 cleared most of Irontooths minions. I imagine 2 Dragonborns at low level is like having a controller.

 

[James McMurray]

The controller does more than minion control. He also funnels enemies and removes them from the fight temporarily.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

Humans get a bonus to saving throws when they get the feat that gives one to them.

Yep. And dwarves get +2 to all weapon damage and +1 AC and Reflex vs. large targets. When they take a feat. Your post, it does nothing, much like the goggles.

 

[Xorne]

I don't think you'll find a spot in the DMG that says, "A group needs a healer."

I'm pretty sure near the very front it says you should have each role present, though. That section then goes on to help the DM understand what encounters the party is going to have trouble with if they are missing one of those roles.

So I'm pretty sure, "The DM needs to adjust the encounters for the missing role." is a completely valid and applicable statment to make.

RULES AS WRITTEN, even.

 

[Dausuul]

I think most of the complaints regarding Twin Strike (two attacks each doing [W]) are in comparison to Careful Attack (one attack at +2 doing [W]). Unless you need a 19+ to hit, your chance of getting one hit in with Twin Strike will always be higher than your chance of hitting with Careful Attack.

This is true, but it doesn't reflect Twin Strike being godly, it reflects Careful Attack being an abysm of suck.