You primary stat should never be lower than 18

[Bialaska]

I think the major issue regarding having an 18 or a 16 is the fact that you lack a lot of the buffing that were in 3.5, which means that your chance to hit is much lower. Not only that, you also deal more damage with a higher score. So you hit 5% more often and depending of your damage you may deal a rather high percentage extra hurt out. 5% more to hit means little with the at-will powers, if you miss you can just use it again, but encounter and daily powers are one-shotters. If they miss they are wasted.

In 3.X such one-shotters were either automatic hit or against a touch AC (and therefore a high chance of hitting). In 4e they are incorporated in all classes. You'll really hate yourself after missing with your daily power that could have turned the entire fight around.

 

[mattdm]

I know this is a specific case but for a wizard it seems you should always have a 20 if possible, 18 if not in your INT as it is the only thing adding to your hit and dmg at first and contributes to your AC and REF, and helps you with your rituals. CON and WIS are the only other stats that are moderately useful and starting with a 13 in those and 10's in the others seems fine.

If you want to be the most über-awesome wizard, you're gonna need to start with at least a 12 in Cha, or else plan to put your 4th and 8th level plusses there (which seems wasteful). And I bet we'll see more feats along those lines in the future.

 

[FadedC]

It's not really a question of viable vs. not-viable. The question is, is an 18 in your primary stat more valuable than a more even distribution? I would say, the vast majority of the time, the 18 will prove to more valuable in the long run.

It probably depends on your class. The most important thing you are gaining from 2 stat points is +1 to hit. Hit bonuses are rare and hard to come by. Damage is nice too, but many things boost damage. And defences are not a reason to go for an 18, because you can get more defences by spreading your points.

Defence bonuses and save penalties are also hard to come by, and some feats that give you bonuses to hit, damage and AC require stats that are outside your primary stat. If you look at feats you may note cases where you get a much larger long term benefit by spreading your stats out a bit more. And keep in mind that +1 to hit only makes a difference in one roll out of 20.

In some cases it may also be worth playing a race who doesn't get a bump to your main stat if that race has an ability that is strong enough to balance it out. For example a regular elf can potentially be strong at any class because of elven accuracy. Unless the fight is really long you will get more benefit from elven accuracy then from +1 to hit.

 

[Branduil]

I think the major issue regarding having an 18 or a 16 is the fact that you lack a lot of the buffing that were in 3.5, which means that your chance to hit is much lower. Not only that, you also deal more damage with a higher score. So you hit 5% more often and depending of your damage you may deal a rather high percentage extra hurt out. 5% more to hit means little with the at-will powers, if you miss you can just use it again, but encounter and daily powers are one-shotters. If they miss they are wasted.

In 3.X such one-shotters were either automatic hit or against a touch AC (and therefore a high chance of hitting). In 4e they are incorporated in all classes. You'll really hate yourself after missing with your daily power that could have turned the entire fight around.

Yeah, that's the thing that really solidified my view on the importance of having a high primary stat. Heck, if you really needed to hit in 3.x, you just cast True Strike on yourself beforehand. There's nothing like that in 4e, in most cases you just have to rely on the naked roll. The most you can get is something like the Elven re-roll ability.

 

[Clawhound]

I look at it this way: there is opportunity, and there is payoff.

Let's say that I have a Strength power that lets me shift 1+[Int mod] opponents.

If I take a 5% chance less to hit (I choose Str 16), I can increase the payoff of the power 25-33% (by choosing a higher Int). Is that worth it? Often enough, it is.

I want my daily powers to hit. I also want my encounter powers to have a maximum effect. Which is more important? I believe that it is far better to support your at-will and encounter powers over your dailies. That's where you get your payback.

When I made my warlord, I noted that many powers affected a secondary ability's worth of opponents. Is that 5% chance to hit a fair tradeoff to shift an additional one or two opponents?

In 4e, payload means far more than damage.

 

[Aldarc]

Hellfire Blood is an explicit fix. Tiefling Warlocks are all viable, thanks to that specific feat.

But it should not require a feat to make a racial choice viable.

Then we're discussing different things: my position is that you need an 18 in your primary attack stat after racial modifiers.

Nonsense. Having an 18 in your primary attack stat even after racial modifiers is a boon but is by no means a necessity, exceptions or otherwise.

 

[Bialaska]

One thing that I dislike about 4e is the fact that you can easily dump attributes. In 3.5 you were limited in which stats you could completely ignore. Intelligence does not give skills anymore. And there are two stats that give bonuses to the various defenses. In 3.5 I preferred having 14, 14, 13, 13, 12, 10 or some similar array. It hurt too much to give up some attributes completely. In 4e it's expected.

 

[Mengu]

However, there's a benefit to odd stats in 4e.

I agree, and that's a reason to pay attention to where you're putting that 13. For instance if I'm building an Human Paladin, I might go for the following stats (using array 16/14/14/13/10/8):

Str 14, Con 13, Dex 10, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 18

At 4th level, I would sink points into Con and Cha, and at 8th, I'd be bumping Wis and Cha. At 11th my Wisdom would even out, but my Con would be odd (and be where it needs to be for Plate specialization). At 14th, I'd even out Con again while increasing Cha, and so on. One well placed odd stat is all you need, in order to stagger your stat advancement.

 

[Nifft]

But it should not require a feat to make a racial choice viable.

"Should"? That and $5 will get you a frappuccino.

-- N

 

[Arbitrary]

The broader, simple picture -

Choose three stats to emphasize that cover all three defenses, one of which is the primary attack stat of your class and make them all as large as the point buy allows. Play a race that boosts the chosen stats.

I think any Str based character is at an inherent disadvantage by also having to worry about sacrificing a defense (ick) or Con (double ick).