Your weapon

[Herobizkit]

I would gravitate to the Spear because IMXP it is generally the least common choice for PCs.

But for my own characters, I use anything BUT those four because they're too stereotypical.

 

[Asmor]

I'm really shocked how many people are posting what weapon they prefer, rather than answering OP's question. I don't even see how you'd think that was what was asked.

An axe has most of its mass concentrated at the end of a longish handle, much like a hammer or mace, coupled with the mechanical advantage of a wedge (its edge), so it concentrates that force into a small area- very good for penetrating armor or severing a limb.

Ah, that's a good point. The handle acts as a lever, which is something the swords lack. Although from what I understand, historically swords were used more for thrusting than for slashing.

I've often wondered why there wasn't a more pick-like weapon. It seems to me that something like a hammer with a long, thin point coming out one end, would be exceptionally good for piercing armor. The only thing I can think is maybe it would get caught?

 

[Evenglare]

I like the halberd myself.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

There were military picks out there, like the Bec de Corbin, and many polearms and axes had pick elements included in their design.

Some large swords of this era had cross guards that tapered enough that they could be used like a pick by a wielder with gauntlets who reversed his grip- this was the foundation for the mortschlag.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Dire flails, because every weapon should have a built-in suicide mechanism.

 

[Janx]

I'm really shocked how many people are posting what weapon they prefer, rather than answering OP's question. I don't even see how you'd think that was what was asked.

I kinda thought Danny answered it. Maybe we're just not getting the OP's point.

civillians in a weapons-controlled society are going to choose weapons that don't look like weapons. Staves, clubs, hammers, axes.

whereas, a sword is clearly a weapon and in certain societies, it's possession would be controlled (like forbidding guns in today's society).

additionally, civillian weapons may be homemade or adapted from conventional items. A club, axe or hammer is something you can make with scrap materials. A sword tends to require a sword making blacksmith (not the usual kind of blacksmithing for horseshoes and nails).

In my martial art style, we were taught that many of the weapons we train with were adopted by peasants, in order to arm themselves against samurai. I don't fully buy the origin of some of these, but Sais, Tonfa, Jo and Bo sticks are in this category. Jo and Bo sticks are walking sticks and quarter staff respectively.

In my personal weapon collection, I have a number of Hollow Earth SwordWorks sparring weapons. I just aquired a spear, and haven't had a chance to test it. I reckon it will be interesting as a thrusting weapon, but vs. my sword, I predict it will be no different than facing other swords in a thrusting attack. Block and step to the side, trap, and attack from the inside against the spear holder.

Since the spear only has it's danger zone at the end, this move should be easier than vs a sword.

A line of spear men (pole arms really ) would be a different challenge to face for a swordsman.

But one on one, not so much.

With a hammer, the concern is the weight. Even in sparring, two men can control their strikes so they don't hurt much. That's out the window with a hammer, as for it to be effective, the wield needs to put muscle behind it just to get it to move. This is then hard to pull back. It's chief disadvantage is that it is hard to change direction for another attack or to adapt to a situation, So, once you swing from upper left to lower right (diagonal smash), you are mostly committed. If I can avoid the hit, I have more time to counter attack vs the hammer, than if the guy had a sword.

The axe is really the same problem as the hammer, just a differently shaped head. Once again, it's front heavy (unlike a sword, which balances closer to the hilt). You don't want to get hit by one of these, as unlike the hammer, the force is concentrated along the edge. That means more damage when it hits.

Clubs and maces are just variants of hammers again. Club being makeshift and primitive, mace being all gussied up.

So, for axe/hammer, they do more damage, but are less adaptable to course correction/reversal. They don't swing slower, so much as commit the wielder to one attack, before doing something else.


For staves (quarterstaff, jo, bo), these are actually balanced weapons (unlike a club or hammer type thing). As such, the move and adapt quickly, like a sword. But they are lighter, so they'll do less damage. Still dangerous in capable hands. The Bo/Quarterstaff is held in the center usually, so it can strike or block at 3 different points (center between hands and the 2 ends). It can block with one end, and quickly twist to attack with the other end, while still maintaining the block with the initial end.

The Jo is meant to be deceptive. It's an old man's walking stick. Planting it in front of your feet, with your hands at the top, it looks like you're just talking to the magistrate. Then you snap the end up into his balls. Like that, he's down. Rotate your hands and slide the stick out for a side jab at his compadre, arc it up and over to crack his guard's collar bone, and then spread your hands out on the stick and block and overhead sword strike.

The sword, as it turns out, can do a lot of these same Jo attacks. I've been taught a few advanced sword moves, and they have commonality with the same trick I can do with a Jo. Except of course, that I can poke your brain out with my sword tip, once I'm in close and in position, or cut your throat as I slide my sword edge past.

Suffice it to say, advanced sword fighting is not just you and me trading blows, trying to hit the other guy after his sword swing misses, or trying to block his sword with mine when it comes in. It includes blocking and stepping in toward him, trapping his sword hand with mine as his sword stops against my blade, then rotating my sword so it points at your head or throat and sliding it in (or turning my pommel toward your face and slamming that in).

I am, by no means, a weapons expert, but these are a few of my observations from training with some of these weapons. assuming I'm mostly correct, it should shed light on the mindset and strategy one would adopt when choosing one of these weapons.

Personally, I'd choose a sword if I could. Failing that, a Bo or Jo stick for the innoccuousness and cheapness.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

In my personal weapon collection, I have a number of Hollow Earth SwordWorks sparring weapons. I just aquired a spear, and haven't had a chance to test it. I reckon it will be interesting as a thrusting weapon, but vs. my sword, I predict it will be no different than facing other swords in a thrusting attack. Block and step to the side, trap, and attack from the inside against the spear holder.

Since the spear only has it's danger zone at the end, this move should be easier than vs a sword.

A line of spear men (pole arms really ) would be a different challenge to face for a swordsman.

But one on one, not so much.

Well, it depends on the particular spear and the particular wielder.

People forget how fast a spear can be, for one. Thrusting, as you know, is fast and economical movement. A spearman can deliver many harrying thrusts in just seconds- enough to distract and/or create an opening your defenses.

Also, don't discount the other end of the spear as a striking tool. For some, it's almost as good as using a staff.

And it's reach an be impressive. I got to do some sparring a long time ago, and the guy who scored the spear was over 6' tall (compared to my 5'7"). My arms are unusually long for my height, but I still gave up some inches in natural reach to him. And his 6' long spear just accentuated it vs my longsword.

In a massed combat, the spear was surprisingly sneaky. The spearman could attack over his allies' shoulders, and more than once, he sent a thrust along the skirmish line against targets engaged in melee- he almost landed one on my torso about kidney height, only failing because I caught the flash of movement.

As for spear types...well, some do have crossbars- originally meant to prevent prey like boat from running up the shaft at the wielder, they can also be used to perform traps & blocks.

Something like an assegai is, in some ways, almost like a sword on a stick- pointed for thrusting, but also quite capable of slashing as well.

 

[Scott DeWar]

I am to understand that the lucern hammer was specifically developed for counter measures against armor: long pick like end to pierce armor, long handle for entry leverage, then use as a can opener. knobby hammer end for 'meat tenderizer'

 

[Janx]

Well, it depends on the particular spear and the particular wielder.

Yeah, I've given the stereotypical basics for each weapon. In the hands of an expert, there's a lot more he can do, and that would probably surprise us. But generically speaking. A strong enough man COULD possibly reverse course with that hammer smash, because to him, the hammer isn't all that heavy.


The spear can be looked at as a staff with a pointy-bladey bit on one end. So a lot of staff moves would work. And there is a slashing technique to use with a spear, by holding one hand near the butt, and the other near the center. The butt-hand can torque the spear in slashing attacks, or thrust it toward an opening, while the center hand lets it slide, pool cue style.


To shift topic a bit to mentality of wielder, which might get to the OP's question, I forgot what it was:

a heavy weapon like a hammer or axe is likely to be used by a big strong man. He's confident in his strength and likes to intimidate others. He likes how much damage he can inflict with a solid hit from his weapon. In real life, a solid hit from him is probably more destructive than a hit from any other weapon. Thus, he is confident in his ability to swing and connect with a foe, liking knocking him down and crushing bones so he can't fight anymore.

Someone with a spear is likely not keen on getting hurt. He wants to be able to hold the enemy at bay, which he thinks the reach advantage of the spear gives him. an alternative is that the spear was issued to him as a conscripted soldier. a lord can afford a lot more spears to hand out to his troops than fancy swords.

a man wielding a quarterstaff is looking to be inconspicuous. Odds are good, he'd rather be mistaken for a harmless old man, or he's being economical and can't really afford a more purposeful weapon. a traveller, or peasant might use such a weapon, so as not to violate weapons laws, appear harmless, while still being able to defend himself.

a man wielding a bow is likely a hunter, or trained archer for the military, possibly both. In real life, England encouraged its peasants to practice archery, so that way when needed, they'd have a useful archery force. In any event, like the quarterstaff, it might be acceptable to be in posession of one, given its uses. However, hunting in real England was fairly well regulated, often peasants were forbidden from hunting as the animals belonged to the Lord. so it's kind of dicey on how culturally emulative" you want to get on how widespread bows would be.

A man wielding a club is kind of a slob and thug. He really has no finesse, and just picked it for its availability. it is probably a dead tree branch or table leg with a nail or rock tied onto it. He may even be hoping that it is unnoticeable if he tosses it aside when the law comes, so it looks like he has no weapon.

A man wielding a crossbow is probably a military man. They don't hand them out to just anybody. The heavier crossbows will have a winch, so it doesn't take lots of strength to cranky it, but it will take some. A guy with 8 strength will probably struggle to cock ANY crossbow, even a light one will have at least a 20 pound draw (when I was a lad, I couldn't draw such a bow until I built up some muscles). Factor this in that a STR penaltied wizard is going to struggle with a a bow or crossbow. He might be able to draw a weaker one, but that will still be a challenge and take longer. the rules don't really reflect this.

A sword is likely to be limited in availability to nobility and professional soldiers. Professional solider might mean mercenary, or could be the noble's standard guards. Even a minor lord might equip his 20 best men with swords. It's the untrained conscripts and irregulars that he's handing out the non-swords to. A sword man is likely to be trained, as I said, he's a professional. that doesn't mean he's a master, just that he actually knows the 5 basic blocking positions, stepping in, counter attacking, and grappling.

Yes, grappling. Almost every fight in the history of man ends up on the ground in a grapple (obviously excluding ranged weapon fire, or if you got lucky and killed him quick). two dudes exchange blows, and eventually one of them steps in close, and the weapons are next to useless. So they punch with the butt of the weapon, drop the sword and use a knife, and just generally wrestle and try to choke or bash the other guy to death. You can still see this effect in bar fights today, or UFC. Some fine punching goes on, then they get into a clinch.

Every boy in the warrior caste of every society is encouraged to wrestle and grapple. So if you were in a viking village, you'd see the boys running around, chasing, and eventually wrestling. This is because they all know that once your axe gets stuck in the other guy's shield, you gotta get in close and take him out with your hands.

Getting in close also defeats the weapon. We learn this in modern self defense classes. block the knife while you step in, sweep and throw, twist the arm as he falls and arc the elbow across your knee or thigh as you smash into his rib with your knee or fist. Once you are between the bad guy's hands and body, he's got less ability to hurt you. That'll change, once he adapts, but his arm movement is inhibited, reducing the angles he can reach and the force he can exert.

So, everybody who ain't a pansy will know how to grapple. This basically means all the classes except the wizard, who was too delicate to engage in such brutish endeavors.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

A man wielding a club is kind of a slob and thug. He really has no finesse, and just picked it for its availability. it is probably a dead tree branch or table leg with a nail or rock tied onto it. He may even be hoping that it is unnoticeable if he tosses it aside when the law comes, so it looks like he has no weapon.

Ah-ah-ahhhh!

Remember, police officers and martial artists around the world use clubs of various kinds- truncheons, nightsticks, escrima sticks, and some of the short staves are essentially clubs.