making sense of scent.

krupintupple · Aug 11, 2008

hey gang, just curious about the following passage from the d20srd:

A creature with the scent ability can detect opponents by sense of smell, generally within 30 feet. If the opponent is upwind, the range is 60 feet. If it is downwind, the range is 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above.

that's all fine and good, but how do i determine if they've smelled the person or creature in question? a wisdom check? a survival check?

i thought it may happen automatically, as scent is fairly second-nature to creatures with this ability, but then i realized that even people with sight (mostly every adventurer) needs to pass 'spot' checks if they want to see someone that isn't obvious.

p.s. i mention this because a warlock PC has the 'scent' ability from an invocation, and it's bound to come up in our games.

so, what's your opinion?

Hrothgar Rannúlfr · Aug 11, 2008

IN the case of a warlock that has it from an invocation, I'd use a wisdom-based skill check as if the warlock had ranks in scent.

How many? That's up to you, but I'd probably go with the number of ranks the warlock had in either spot or listen (whichever was higher). That or I'd go with the character's warlock level.

Setting the DC shouldn't be too hard.

1-5 strong odor

6-10 moderate odor

11-15 faint odor

16-20 almost odorless

But, this is all off the top of my head. It'll be interesting to see what the RAW answer is.

Jeff Wilder · Aug 11, 2008

To answer the question: Scent, as written, is automatic detection within the given ranges.

Scent is one of those areas in which 3E didn't do such a great job. There are a couple of ways to handle it that would have been better than the tacked on system that made it into the rulebook.

(1) Make "Pick Up Scent" a skill, Wisdom-based like Spot and Listen, but only available to creatures with the Scent special ability, much like Control Shape is only available to lycanthropes. Use racial mods liberally. Be sure to give a synergy bonus to Sense Motive! ("I can smell your fear.")

(2) Make noticing a scent a Wisdom check, and give a significant bonus (probably as high as +8 for animals like dogs) for having the Scent ability.

Remember that making the DC means noticing the scent. We all see, hear, and smell things constantly without actually noticing them. DMs can set DCs; we do it for Spot and Listen all the time. Give a penalty for distance (-1 per 10 feet works fine), halve or double it if wind direction warrants, and if using the Wisdom check method, remember that DCs should be significantly lower for ability checks than for skill check of approximately the same intended difficulty.

I'm honestly not sure which of the methods above I prefer; they both have strong and weak points. When I house-ruled it before, I used the first method. Nowadays I don't find house-ruling it to be a worthwhile change, but if I did I'd probably go for the simpler second method.

irdeggman · Aug 11, 2008

Or allow a spot check (which includes all senses) to be used under special conditions.

Like against an invisible, silenced creature (have it negate the penalties to spot checks from those conditions).

Use it to give situational modifiers to spot checks for detection.

But as pointed out per RAW it is automatic like normal vision in essence extended your normal vision range and conditions (as in complete darkness).

freyar · Aug 11, 2008

irdeggman said:
Or allow a spot check (which includes all senses) to be used under special conditions.

I don't think Spot includes all senses because there's a separate Listen skill. The Pathfinder alpha rules do have a single Perception skill that specifically lists all senses, and it might be worth looking at those to get a good idea of DCs to use if you want to require a skill or ability check. (Though the skills are changed slightly otherwise as well.)

I have to agree with the others that RAW scent is supposed to be automatic, though it probably ought to work like sight.

krupintupple · Aug 12, 2008

automatic success concerns me, because nothing else is so easy in this game. but on the same merit, by the time the foe in questions' scent comes wafting over to the warlock, it'll only be enough to give him a leg-up against his allies for a surprise round.

Alzrius · Aug 12, 2008

It's worth noting that the "automatic detection" aspect of scent is automatically defeated if there's a stronger scent in the area overpowering others. A smart PC or NPC can exploit that if they know that someone with the scent quality is in the area.