Brainstorming Beautiful "Orcs" and "Goblins"

This is my second thread on this subject, and it is a bit of a fork from the last one.

Basically, I want to develop a new race (or two) to fill the niche of orcs and hobgoblins, and maybe another to fill that of goblins and kobolds. But whereas most such races signal their villainy by being hideous and ugly, I want one that falls on the other end of the beauty spectrum.

Beyond good looks, the race also has to be culturally evil. Probably not chaotic evil, because drow and orcs sort of already have that nailed down in various ways. Preferrably they should be on about the same power scale as player races, though something as strong as a gnoll might be acceptable. They ought to native to the material plane (though not necessarily the main world) and they ought to be common enough that they could raise at least small armies. Preferrably dexterity should not be their best stat, unless perhaps the race in question is small sized.

With all that in mind, perhaps we can get a discussion going?

Kaodi said:

With all that in mind, perhaps we can get a discussion going?

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Thals from Doctor Who spring to mind. They were the warrior caste on Skaro (the Daleks/Kaleds being the scientists), and their alignment on the show has varied all the way from antagonist to protagonist depending on the story.

In north European folklore, there are the Huldra, who may be a bit too supernatural to meet the requirement of being a common race. Similarly, there are Irish Fomorians, who are described as being beautiful and evil in several stories, only become ugly monsters later on.

1) Orcs and goblins aren't ugly to other orcs and goblins...just sayin'.

2) The darker fey of European legend were not neccessarily ugly either. While beautiful, the "lords & ladies" were quite cruel to humans. While not numerous, perhaps therir ability to pop up into our world from Underhill/The Unseelie Court/whatever is what makes them formidable...

3) a Priest I know once gave a sermon about how we so often depict The Devil as ugly, but, he pointed out, Satan is beautiful- not only is he an Angel, he needs his beauty to be able to attract us from the path that God has set forth. From a non-theological standpoint, there's nothing Wong with taking this approach to a D&D race. Hell- didn't 4Ed sort of do this with Tieflings?

Dannyalcatraz said:

2) The darker fey of European legend were not neccessarily ugly either. While beautiful, the "lords & ladies" were quite cruel to humans. While not numerous, perhaps therir ability to pop up into our world from Underhill/The Unseelie Court/whatever is what makes them formidable...

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Terry Pratchett's Discworld elves were my first thought. The first time they appear, not coincidentally, is called "Lords & Ladies" ...

I was going to 2nd Fey. There are many old (and modern) stories where the fey, pixies, and their ilk could be quite cruel to humanity despite their outward beauty.

Perhaps something like the Aristos from Catherine Asaro's Skolian novels. They're a race of empaths, but their empathy is twisted such that they feel pleasure when others feel pain.

They're beautiful, but cruel. They have an empire built on slavery, though only the topmost caste are true Aristos.

If you want to get rid of fey (Gobbos are fey too, you know. So are Dwarves, as well as Elves, Orcs, etc.) just use Humans. You can never tell what they are just by looking at them. Books and their covers. (I love it when the ugly one is the captured princess and the beautiful one is the wicked witch.)

In the other thread I actually did propose another specific rule: they cannot be elves, .

In any case, here is one of the first ideas I was thinking of building on. In the other thread, the race I proposed had a bonus in strength. But if we really push this idea of "beauty" , one of the things that concept gets connected to is "health" . So, it might make sense for them to have high vitality; constitution. On the other hand, I do not want to fall into the trap of equating "beauty" with "charisma" . So charisma ought to be off limits as the other ability with a bonus. Dwarves already have the tough and wilfull thing down, so as with my other proposed race I think that intelligence is going to be their key mental attribute. The big question that remains in this department is: if they are known for being lacking in one department, which should it be?

Two extremely important issues I am having trouble with: what do you make them look like? I have an idea that I do not want them to be lithe or short like (some) elves, or broad like dwarves, or bestial like shifters. I had some ideas for the other race I was working on, but there was some significant disagreement, and I think I would like to get the discussion back to square one.

The other question is personality and culture, and what makes them bad. Before my idea was that such a race could be arrogant, superior, and territorial. I guess this did not make them much different from elves in some ways (especially since they were going to be pretty much immortal).

But when I was reading up on the Pathfinder Online blog I got another idea to meld with the old one: perhaps such a race would be one of artists and architects who have an unforgiving and rigid outlook on the "proper uses of things" . For instance, they might attack and demolish a castle just to build one of about similar size, function, and durability in the same place, but one that fits their particular vision of how the terrain should have been used aesthetically. As such, they do not capture land necessarily for its strategic value, of its history, but for its unrealized artistic potential. Such a race might be driven out of a region they had held for centuries and not try to take it back because they were satisfied the land was still being utilized properly. What makes them dangerous is that they have no hesitation about attacking and killing anyone who does not "fit in" or "add" to the area, or who has defaced something important to them.

So I guess the question is: what sort of cultural traits and ways of life have not really been done by any race?

Maybe providing some more details about the region where this race lives might be helpful in brainstorming ideas. The nature of the region a culture develops in impacts its views greatly.