Curse of Strahd: What is Straud von Zarovich's Title? [SPOILERS ALERT]

Coroc said:

Barovia (prime) has ist origins in FR, it would be helpful and interesting to check wether it was a kingdom in FR.

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That's highly unlikely. The original Ravenloft module was published in 1983, some four years before TSR published FR (although it had been mentioned in Dragon before then). It's rather more likely that Ravenloft came out of Tracy Hickman's own home campaign rather than FR (or, indeed, Greyhawk).

In terms of his title, it looks like his family were "long unseated from their ancestral thrones". So it's likely that his family were rulers of a kingdom once upon a time, but that the throne passed to another family.

That being the case, it seems likely that Strahd was given the title of Count when he conquered Barovia (by whoever was the current king), but that he considered himself to be a prince. Or it's possibly that his family retained a 'dormant' title of prince (in the same way that an ex-president is still referred to by that title), but used the title of Count within Barovia.

Or maybe there's an as-yet-unmentioned older brother out there who's even more of a monster...

well here i found something [MENTION=3547]Matrix Sorcica[/MENTION] posted in a 2016 thread http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...Borovia-be-situated-in-Forgotten-Realms/page3

"IIRC, there's advice in Expedition to Castle Ravenloft on placing it in FR. I seem to recall it's somewhere in the Galena Mountains in Damara. "

So maybe not in the original module but later on. Is I6 mentioning Lathander or only morning Lord? I have got the module but at home so not accessable atm
[MENTION=22424]delericho[/MENTION]

Coroc said:

well here i found something [MENTION=3547]Matrix Sorcica[/MENTION] posted in a 2016 thread http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...Borovia-be-situated-in-Forgotten-Realms/page3

"IIRC, there's advice in Expedition to Castle Ravenloft on placing it in FR. I seem to recall it's somewhere in the Galena Mountains in Damara. "

So maybe not in the original module but later on.

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Yep, that seems likely.

Of course, it's relatively easy to set any Ravenloft adventure in almost any other setting - just rule that the relevant bit of the demiplane has come into conjunction with the other plane.

Is I6 mentioning Lathander or only morning Lord? I have got the module but at home so not accessable atm

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I'm afraid I don't have the adventure to hand either, for the same reason. I looked up the publication dates online.

The counts titles.
The Big Sucker
Vanity Vamp
Needle teeth needle teeth never brushes his teeth.
Yellow Teeth
The Sucking Count
Silly Strahd
von von von von von von BAT man!
I hear you knocking but you can't coming!
Count in Black.

I think the first mention of Lathander in connection with Barovia is in one of the spin-off novels. The artefacts are deity non-specific in the original module. I suspect that is where some of the other information on the Forgotten Realms wiki comes from.

No mention of Lathander in the original. Just checked.

Paul Farquhar said:

I think the first mention of Lathander in connection with Barovia is in one of the spin-off novels.

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Nice catch! The first mention of the Morninglord was, in fact, in Vampire of the Mists, the first Ravenloft novel. That novel includes Jander Sunstar, a character from the Forgotten Realms.

The Domains of Dread book from the Ravenloft campaign setting incorporated the Morninglord into Ravenloft proper. The reference doesn't come from I6.

The artefacts are deity non-specific in the original module. I suspect that is where some of the other information on the Forgotten Realms wiki comes from.

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The note provided by Coroc above comes from the 3E hardcover adventure Expedition to Castle Ravenloft as part of the notes to adapt the adventure to different settings.

I suspect that Strahd is a Count because vampire; it's likely as simple as that.

--
Pauper

Paul Farquhar said:

In order to be a king, the place your rule has to be a kingdom (and visa versa). Historically they have been many, in modern terms, would be considered nation-states, which where not kingdoms.

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In order to be a king, you conquer everyone who says otherwise. Strahd certainly falls into that category. If he chooses to call himself king is another matter.

It's all poor editing about his parents, but all modules and supplements, including the 5e material, refer to Strahd as "Count." Per AD&D Domains of Dread, this appears by choice (describing Strahd as choosing not to rule like a prince or king).

So here's the inconsistencies about his parents:

First, there may be confusion about Prime Material Barovia and Dark Domain Barovia. Per the "Roots of Evil" AD&D module, there is a modern day Barovia and whatever exists in the Shadowfell is a carbon copy. They have Castle Ravenloft and the village of Vallki, etc., but Vallaki, for example, is an unwalled peaceful "resort" town and the Prime Material castle is quite nice. There are a lot of parallels, despite the centuries, such as both have a Blue Water Inn, an Arasek stockyard, and a Father Lucian. The modern Barovians believe Strahd is a hero who vanished when a dark fog settled on the castle and took the wedding party, including most of the royal family (except Strahd's brother Sturm, who wasn't there). The Domain of Dread AD&D supplement describes people who left the wedding early but were still grabbed by the mists (e.g. the Dilisnya family, which has a century long grudge with the von Zarovich line).

The Ravenloft Black Box AD&D set and Gazetteer create a timeline for Barovia and its history. Using a Barovian calendar (BC), Barovia was established Year 1 on an "outlander world" of unknown name. The Gazetteer describes it as an alliance of "independent city states."

299 BC, Strahd is born to Count Barov von Zarovich and Countess Ravenia van Roeyen. (per the Gazeteer). This conflicts with I6, the AD&D module that started it all, and the AD&D 2e reprint House of Strahd, which both call Strahd's parents "King" and "Queen" and spell the queen's name as Ravenonia. The first Ravenloft novel has a scene where Jander Sunstar is looking at a portrait of Strahd's parents, listed as "Barov and Ravenonia von Zarovich." And you've got "King's" rooms in the castle, and the burial vaults in every incarnation of Castle Ravenloft that have "Kings" buried there.

346 BC, his parents are killed by Terg invaders, and he takes over the army.

351 BC, Strahd's actions draws the land of Barovia into the mists (but as "Roots of Evil" and the nature of the Shadowfell show, it's people that were taken, everything else was copied).

740 BC, the Grand Conjunction occurs (big event where the Dark domains of Ravenloft spilled into the Prime Material plane). At this time, there is a Barovia Kingdom on the prime material plane ruled by King Barov von Zarovich VI and Queen Kristiana von Zarovich. The AD&D module "Roots of Evil" covers this. Not all the von Zarovich line were captured by the mists.

Conclusion: Strahd's parents were a King and Queen and the Gazetteer is an outlier error. Despite conquering his homeland after his parents' deaths, he never elevated himself to the title of King, likely due to his military heritage and lack of desire for the day-to-day management of a King. Back on Prime Material Barovia, they continued the practice of having a King and Queen using the von Zarovich lineage.