Worlds of Design: When There's Too Many Magic Items

If you’ve GMed a long-standing campaign where players reached fairly high levels, you may have run into problems of too much magic, or of too many low-powered magic items (such as +1 items) in the hands of the heroes. What to do?

If you’ve GMed a long-standing campaign where players reached fairly high levels, you may have run into problems of too much magic, or of too many low-powered magic items (such as +1 items) in the hands of the heroes. What to do?


While you could simply buy up the surplus, there are other ways that don’t put lots of gold in character’s hands. These methods can be built into a game’s rules (as in Pathfinder 2 “resonance”) or they can be added by the GM.
[h=3]Limit the Supply (i.e., limit ownership)[/h] The proper game design way is to severely limit supply, as could be done in a board game. No magic item sales. Middle-earth is an example of a world with very few magic items.

But what about joint campaigns, where several people GM in the same world? New GMs, especially, will tend to give away too much “to make people happy.”

But that’s a setting thing, not rules/mechanisms. An RPG designer doesn’t control the setting, not even his or her own.

In these days where “loot drops” are the norm, where every enemy in a computer RPG has loot, it’s really hard to get players accustomed to a severe shortage of stuff to find. So limit usage, or provide ways to use up the small stuff.
[h=3]Limit Usage[/h]
  • Tuning to just three (5e D&D)
  • Resonance
  • Easy to come up with other methods
5e D&D’s tuning of magic items to characters is one of the best rules in the game, at least from a designer’s point of view.

Pathfinder 2 beta was using resonance (level plus charisma), whereby use of a magic item uses up some of your resonance for the day, until you have no more and can use no more magic until the next day. It was more complex than that, with you “investing” in items that could then be used all day. There are lots of ways to use the idea.
[h=3]Destroy Them[/h] The D&D method was fireball or LB with failed saving throw. But that was so all-or-nothing that even I didn’t like it. Moreover, the tougher characters tend to end up with even more magic items, relative to others, because they fail their save less often; that may not be desirable.

Have everything (most, anyway) wear out. This is a hassle if you have to track something like charges or uses. I assign a dice chance (or use a standard one for a type of item), and the player rolls after each use (or I do, so the player won’t know until the next time they try to use the item). When the “1" comes up, the item is done, finis, kaput (unless you allow it to be “recharged”). For example, 1 in 20 failure rate is obvious; roll a 1 on a d20, that’s it. With two dice you can make 1 in 40, 1 in 50, whatever you want. If you want armor, shields, and other passive defensive items to wear out, rolling once per combat might do.
[h=3]Burn Them Up[/h]
  • My Skyrafts
  • Furnace Helms in Spelljammer
  • Rituals?
I devised something called Skyrafts, made of segments of Skystone (of course), that could slowly fly when powered by magic items. So you could sacrifice something like a +1 sword to get X miles of travel, X being whatever a GM wishes. The more segments (carrying capacity) in the Skyraft, the more magic it consumed. Yes, this could be expensive, but if your world has become infested with +1 items, this is a way to get rid of them.

Furnace Helms in SpellJammer accomplish the same thing, but only if you’re running a Spelljammer campaign.

You could also devise powerful ritual spells that consume magic items.
[h=3]“Enforcers”[/h] These are people who seek out wimpy characters with magic items much too powerful for them, and take them away. I don’t do this, as it doesn’t make much sense to me. But it could in some contexts.

I'm sure others have devised yet more ways to limit the influence of magic items.

This article was contributed by Lewis Pulsipher (lewpuls) as part of EN World's Columnist (ENWC) program. You can follow Lew on his web site and his Udemy course landing page. If you enjoy the daily news and articles from EN World, please consider contributing to our Patreon!
 

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Lewis Pulsipher

Lewis Pulsipher

Dragon, White Dwarf, Fiend Folio

the_redbeard

Explorer
Disallowing magic item trade is very immersion breaking and very hard to justify.

Since millenia people have engaged in trade as long as there are two persons who want what the others have and it is not feasible to kill the other.
Excempting magical items from this makes no sense at all.

This is a falsehood taught by economists. According to anthropologists, within communities most pre-state societies either distribute goods by need or through systems of credit (some of which were/are highly social and highly complex; reciprocal relationships rather than ledger economics). Trade before the rise of states only occurred between strangers who would not have a relationship after the meeting. Trade, markets and money were developed by states, initially and primarily to feed armies. That's the evidence of early societies and modern indigenous non-state societies that haven't been absorbed by the modern market economy. Yes, in some places we've had empires/states for millennia but the implication that as a species we've always traded (as if it was natural) is incorrect.

But that's not even the point of the 5e rule/suggestion, because markets and trade exist in 5e (a cash economy far more encompassing of society than anything in the actual European Medieval period).

My understanding of the default RAW 5e 'world' is that there aren't enough people who are willing to part with their magical items for cash for their to be a standard trade with them. Permanent magical items are too rare and too useful to sell. Anyone with an actual magical item store would find it prohibitively expensive to protect.
 
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I

Immortal Sun

Guest
If you’ve GMed a long-standing campaign where players reached fairly high levels, you may have run into problems of too much magic, or of too many low-powered magic items (such as +1 items) in the hands of the heroes. What to do?

First I tell them that their article irritates me to the point where it is difficult to write a comprehensive response without becoming irrationally angry at what I am responding to. And given the tone, noting the author is unlikely to change their mind regardless of what I write, and regardless of what anyone has ever written to them.

*deep breath*

I usually wrap up the campaign and start anew.

Yes, I understand many of you, especially the older players, have played in the same campaign for years, if not decades, and some of your characters have outright gotten to godhood and just as it is IRL, that power is difficult to give up.

But I believe some of the best gaming occurs not at length, but in brevity. Short stories are often better than novels. Coming to your point is better than rambling. Go on an adventure, make some gold, retire. Make a new character, do it again. Populate your world not with a handful of "Doomsday" campaigns but with a proliferation of short, "adventures".

You will in those cases, almost never see the problems this article worries about come up.
 

This is a falsehood taught by economists. According to anthropologists, within communities most pre-state societies either distribute goods by need or through systems of credit (some of which were/are highly social and highly complex; reciprocal relationships rather than ledger economics). Trade before the rise of states only occurred between strangers who would not have a relationship after the meeting. Trade, markets and money were developed by states, initially and primarily to feed armies. That's the evidence of early societies and modern indigenous non-state societies that haven't been absorbed by the modern market economy. Yes, in some places we've had empires/states for millennia but the implication that as a species we've always traded (as if it was natural) is incorrect.

More like a truth taught by economists. Most societies are larger than a single nomadic band or village where everyone has the same skill set and everyone is related. My degrees are in History and Cultural Anthropology. As soon as skill specialization develops trade follows. Even in traditional economies and tribal societies. You can't specialize without it. It expands over time in both quantities of goods and distances (market size). Money is a convenience making trade easier, not a requirement for trade. Even money is traded. And before money, barter is a thing. And "markets" exist, physically or otherwise, when people want to exchange goods or services. Long range trade pre dates the development of the state (although it expanded and increased with the advent of states). Native North America had trade which spanned the continent with no states in the European sense, no money (in the modern sense, unless you are fond of shells or beads) and no standing armies. The idea that trade, markets, and money developed to feed armies is... odd. They are certainly useful to raising and maintaining armies but I don't see a causal relationship as in "we need an army, therefore we must have money and trade". Money, markets and trade are far more important to the rise of cities, for example, than to armies.

But that's not even the point of the 5e rule/suggestion, because markets and trade exist in 5e (a cash economy far more encompassing of society than anything in the actual European Medieval period).

My understanding of the default RAW 5e 'world' is that there aren't enough people who are willing to part with their magical items for cash for their to be a standard trade with them. Permanent magical items are too rare and too useful to sell. Anyone with an actual magical item store would find it prohibitively expensive to protect.

This, I pretty much agree with (both parts).
 

Disallowing magic item trade is very immersion breaking and very hard to justify.

Since millenia people have engaged in trade as long as there are two persons who want what the others have and it is not feasible to kill the other.
Excempting magical items from this makes no sense at all.

D&D has the problem that there is no item progression besides magic. When was the last edition where your players were overjoyed to find a well made plate armor to replace their scale mail with? By now you basically start out with the best mundane gear you can get or are certain to get it very soon.

Not really. Rarity and the consequent inability to establish values for the items (in monetary terms) reduces it to the level of barter or favors granted rather like a medieval fief :) Having a market with monetary equivalent values would need a large number of items of specific, or at least similar, types. I always think of the value and rarity of magic items as more akin to fine artwork than to common goods. While money might get you some things, it certainly can't get you everything. Unless you hire a really good thief...
 

As for the OP, if there are too many items... I don't think my players have had that problem in the last 40+ years :) They have given them to friends (a wedding gift for example), or henchmen, or used them to influence people (memorably a +1 Ring of Protection given to a watch sergeant), or donated them to temples, or swapped them for other items or services. In a setting with a large number of items I can see the equivalent of a property tax (in cash or magic items)... that might be essentially an "enforcer" when the tax collector shows up. It would need to be a very magically wealthy society for this to be a big problem imho. Certainly any setting where magic is the local equivalent of technology (and is just as common) would have this issue... which would be solved by the markets (and or taxation).
 

Derren

Hero
Not really. Rarity and the consequent inability to establish values for the items (in monetary terms) reduces it to the level of barter or favors granted rather like a medieval fief :) Having a market with monetary equivalent values would need a large number of items of specific, or at least similar, types. I always think of the value and rarity of magic items as more akin to fine artwork than to common goods. While money might get you some things, it certainly can't get you everything. Unless you hire a really good thief...

How do you think all the fine artwork that exist got created? Because people paid money for it.
And just because magic items are rare doesn't mean they are not traded. Quite the opposit. There would not be a regular trade with them aka a market stall for +1 swords, but when someone wants to get rid of a +1 sword he would easily find buyers. And people who are able to make magic items would have a steady work supplying nobles, rich folk and the occasional prestigious company with lower level magical items like +1 or +2 weapons and armor, with the occasional high level item for a king.
And of course like any industry magic item making would at one point centralize and there you can buy and sell magic items easily.

The typical D&D setting usually is a early rennaisance setting where trade flowed continent wide and beyond (and did so for millenia) and where the industry starts to take off. Exempting magical items from that looks completely out if place.
 
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Martin Ell

First Post
Sorry, i'm a bit late to this discussion. Thought I'd throw in my 2c - as always, please feel free to disagree (bonus points given to people who can cogently state *why* they disagree).
Limiting usage: Easy to do, but only exacerbates the stated problem of characters having too many low-powered items.
Destroy them: Not so bad if it's a consumable item - that's expected - but when permanent items get destroyed, it generally alienates the players, or frustrates them at the very least. You can build a mechanic for this that players accept: armour might be damaged by weapons of equal or greater potency, magical fire can damage wood or cloth items and so on. As long as the players understand and accept that the risk exists, it's usable.
Enforcers: Why? Seriously, any GM that pulls that trick *deserves* to lose their players unless thay can build it into the story (e.g. You've found the legendary Sword of Damos Westfield, mage slayer, and rumor spreads that you have it. The local fighters' guild wants it as a trophy, the local wizards' guild wants it publically destroyed, and every thief in the neighborhood knows it's worth more than ten thousand - and you're only a group of level 2 characters. Fear of enforcers therefore becomes part of the ongoing story and used to create dramatic tension - they don't actually need to be used.

As a general thing, as a GM, I don't mind giving out magic items - but they're uncommon, and therefore valued. Some of them are a bit offbeat. Some of them can be given as unique gifts to guilds or nobles in return for favors, others can be given to henchmen who've distinguished themselves, others can be sold or traded. By making magic items uncommon, they're always in demand - but the local economy may not have sufficient available coin for buying them - do they barter them for something else if its available, or perhaps they'll want to head to Big City to sell them - and thus starts another adventure.
 

How do you think all the fine artwork that exist got created? Because people paid money for it.
And just because magic items are rare doesn't mean they are not traded. Quite the opposit. There would not be a regular trade with them aka a market stall for +1 swords, but when someone wants to get rid of a +1 sword he would easily find buyers. And people who are able to make magic items would have a steady work supplying nobles, rich folk and the occasional prestigious company with lower level magical items like +1 or +2 weapons and armor, with the occasional high level item for a king.
And of course like any industry magic item making would at one point centralize and there you can buy and sell magic items easily.

The typical D&D setting usually is a early rennaisance setting where trade flowed continent wide and beyond (and did so for millenia) and where the industry starts to take off. Exempting magical items from that looks completely out if place.

Some was commissioned, some was simply created by the artist. Any number of artists died poor with their art valued only later. But, that's taking the comparison too far. The rarity and antiquity of the art is an important part of it's value. But try to buy a one of a kind work of art and it'll be unavailable at any price.

If there is enough magic available, I don't disagree with what you said btw. Magic is rare, magic is valuable. The trade in it is limited. Kings and nobles might commission magic items. I just don't see there being a regular trade in magic. Unless there is a lot of it. Then, like any other commodity, a market would exist.

I also agree about D&D being at the level of the Renaissance in terms of trade and money. Industry is, well pre industrial revolution. In my own game it will stay that way. I did away with science :)

*Edit* Spelling. Yes, spelling.
 
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Derren

Hero
Some was commissioned, some was simply created by the artist. Any number of artists died poor with their art valued only later. But, that's taking the comparison too far. The rarity and antiquity of the art is an important part of it's value. But try to buy a one of a kind work of art and it'll be unavailable at any price.

If there is enough magic available, I don't disagree with what you said btw. Magic is rare, magic is valuable. The trade in it is limited. Kings and nobles might commission magic items. I just don't see there being a regular trade in magic. Unless there is a lot of it. Then, like any other commodity, a market would exist.

I also agree about D&D being at the level of the Renaissance in terms of trade and money. Industry is, well pre industrial revolution. In my own game it will stay that way. I did away with science :)

*Edit* Spelling. Yes, spelling.

There is one big difference between magic items and art. They are made to be used and serve an actual, often life saving, purpose. Thus the demand for magic items would be a lot higher than for art.
So don't compare magic items to art, but with well made weapons and armor. Still rare and expensive, but readily available for people with money. Chain Mail was very time consuming to make, yet still encountered on the battlefield. The same applies to well bred destrier etc.

You also forget another thing. A magical item you have no use for is useless to you when no one can afford it. So no matter how rare it is, you will have to lower the price until someone can buy it. Or you move somewhere where people have more money. Either way, the price will go down until "trade happens".

So as long as there are people who can make magic items there will be trade with them as selling them will be their income. In addition adventerurs, mercenaries or even looters will sell their spoils as will people who have fallen on hard times or otherwise value money more than magic.
No, there likely won't be magic shops except for potions etc, but when you have the money and connections comissioning a magical item will not be a problem as will dropping of an item you do not need any more at the local quartermaster, steward, rich merchant, etc. for a nice sum of money without much problems.
Restricting magic item trade it both silly and frankly unnatural. Thats simply not how human societies work.

And you also do not need an industrial revolution for there to be an industry. Cologne was a center for plate mail production and Venice was well known for their glassmaking, not to mention their famous Arsenal that could build one warship a day with an early form of the assembly line (although that was one of a kind).
Somewhere the magical item crafters will gather and grow from there, either because people there are rich and trade flowed through the city or because there was ample access to raw materials. Either way, they would grow like other weapon industries would as the demand for magical items would certainly be there in a monster infested world.
 
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Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Town? Treasure is divided ASAP as you don't know you even will make it to town and using the magic items to get to town is important.

Depends on the group composition and edition. If you can't just know what magic items do by sleeping with them, they were often not useful as you weren't able to use them. Money was just held by the party fighter or barbarian, as they had the greatest carrying capacity without becoming encumbered. If you happened to have a wizard with identify memorized and pearls, you could ID things in the field and get them into the right hands.
 

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