Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
You mean grant a general proficiency bonus -- not tied just to things you are explicitly proficient in?
D&D 4E How To Clone 4E Using 5E Rules
- Thread starter Zardnaar
- Start date
You mean grant a general proficiency bonus -- not tied just to things you are explicitly proficient in?
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
General Proficiency which affects all d20 checks? (what about AC)?
Yaarel
He Mage
Personally, I like the ‘just explicitly’ part.
But, I also like how 5e gives the FULL proficiency, to anything one later becomes proficient in. For example, if one is level 13 and gains proficiency in Stealth, the proficiency is +4. One doesnt start at the beginning with +2.
EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
Those are some...very different level break points. Any, uh, particular reason why you're really set on 4/8/8/4 as your progression numbers? Because I guarantee people will complain about them being "weird" and not "round" numbers like multiples of 5 or 10.
Personally, I'd fork out the "student" thing into an entirely separate progression: Novice status. Essentially, you get a radically trimmed-down starting point (possibly only having a single at-will or the like), and then you slooooooooowly build up to the level of a "proper" 1st level character with a Theme and Background. Treat it like 13A's Incremental Advance system, except you're getting things like class features, heavier armor, more HP, your first daily, your first feat, etc.
That way, it's an opt-in system for people who want it, not an opt-out system that will confuse and frustrate at least some new players and DMs (as I have seen 5e's "well you SHOULD start at level 3+ unless you WANT a challenge" do.) And it would let us give that "zero to hero" style breathing room, rather than forcing it to be squeezed into a handful of levels. Hell, by applying the same concept, you could spool out every single level all the way to 30, allowing people to elect to only advance incrementally and in very measured, methodical pacing.
Personally, I'd fork out the "student" thing into an entirely separate progression: Novice status. Essentially, you get a radically trimmed-down starting point (possibly only having a single at-will or the like), and then you slooooooooowly build up to the level of a "proper" 1st level character with a Theme and Background. Treat it like 13A's Incremental Advance system, except you're getting things like class features, heavier armor, more HP, your first daily, your first feat, etc.
That way, it's an opt-in system for people who want it, not an opt-out system that will confuse and frustrate at least some new players and DMs (as I have seen 5e's "well you SHOULD start at level 3+ unless you WANT a challenge" do.) And it would let us give that "zero to hero" style breathing room, rather than forcing it to be squeezed into a handful of levels. Hell, by applying the same concept, you could spool out every single level all the way to 30, allowing people to elect to only advance incrementally and in very measured, methodical pacing.
Yaarel
He Mage
I think everybody here agrees that 4e-style Constitution is superior? So, add the SCORE at level 1, and never additional BONUS hit points. This removes low level fragility, and avoids high level hitpoint inflation.
(Optional Variant, if players like fragile low levels: add the bonus once at each tier, at levels 1, 5, 13, 21?)
(Optional Variant, if players like fragile low levels: add the bonus once at each tier, at levels 1, 5, 13, 21?)
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
I dont it is exactly what I have been complaining ie about 5e having no accounting for general confidence, competence and actual bread of experience.
When I was a kid I learned bursty and a lot in a given area but over time I have learned that the experience of my life all contributes to confidence, competence and general adaptability which I can bring to the table even when the field isn't exactly what i learned. Ie the rest is a general foundation. 5e feels like it models only how a child learns.
In 4e the Epic Hero is better all around than he was starting out.
In 4e generally even untrained you are significantly better at intimidating the old town Mayor.
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Yaarel
He Mage
Well, 5e is already ‘weird’. 5e tiers break at levels 1, 5, 10, and 17. In other words 4/6/6/4.
The first tier in a 5e→4e system with levels 1 to 4 is natural, because these levels in 5e are simply too weak and too incompetent to represent a 4e ‘Heroic’ tier.
Level 13 seems appropriate for a ‘Path’.
It could be 4, Heroic 8, Paragon 8, and Epic 8. But Epic is still a formative design trying to be interesting, powerful, and balanced, all at the same time. So I feel committing to 4 levels of Epic is more doable than a full 8 levels.
Tony Vargas
Legend
Should affect save bonuses, certainly. AC kinda crawls upwards by itself, a little, though, as you get better armor.
But, if going for 4e-ish feel under BA, yes, of course AC also. If just tweaking 5e, AC can be left to it's own devices.
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
Yaarel
He Mage
I understand what you are saying, but then adding a tier bonus plus a proficiency bonus strains the already strained bounded accuracy of 5e.
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