D&D 4E How To Clone 4E Using 5E Rules

Charlaquin · May 25, 2019

jmartkdr said:
I assume you've looked into 13th Age? It's very much, in many ways, an attempt to be exactly this.

It didn't quite hit the sweet spot for me (because it goes all-in on the TotM among other things) but it seems to work for a lot of people.

I have. It’s a very good system, but it doesn’t hit the right notes for me.

Charlaquin · May 25, 2019

Saelorn said:
As for finding an audience, I honestly think you'd have a better chance finding players for a new game that nobody had ever heard of, rather than an established game which has been discontinued. The only one you really need to sell on it is yourself.

Hmm. I think this is the most convincing argument I’ve heard in favor of making my own system. I appreciate the encouragement.

Zardnaar · May 25, 2019

Going by the online numbers 4E has enough players to susain a clone as its bigger than most of the OSR games, but not bigger than the OSR overall. Leally you can do it the main problems being.

1. Its a lot of work.
Writing RPG materials is hard, you can clone D&D/OSR fairly easy. 3 Books the size of 3E/4E/5E is bigger than all the clones I can think of.

2. A lot of 4E players don't want to change that much. A lot of clones are different mechanically to TSR D&D's but the playstyle is very very similar.

3. No unified frontrunner to launch/write such a project.

Zardnaar · May 25, 2019

As for the warlord you could have one I. 5E that does 95% of the 4E one. Even if you don't like partial healing mechanically you can make it work.

The main thing is at will attack granting. Doesn't work so well in the 5E context due to class design. If you cloned 4E and had different class design that's not a problem.

Even if you made a variant 5E with tweaked monsters, and 4E type classes that would also work.

Sacrosanct · May 25, 2019

I think Morrus has the right of it. A lot of people accuse 4e of focusing solely on the combat encounter, spending 95% of your time in tactical combat. Plenty of people certainly want that. Well, play up to that assumption. Build adventures as more of combat encounters. And as another suggested, tie them together. Kind of like how a lot of turn based strategy computer games did back in the day. I think there is definitely room in the D&D world to have a tactical grid based version where combat is the large majority and focus of the design, as opposed to how it is now, with three equal pillars.

Giltonio_Santos · May 25, 2019

Zardnaar said:
The main thing is at will attack granting. Doesn't work so well in the 5E context due to class design. If you cloned 4E and had different class design that's not a problem.

Why do you think so? With 4-6 superiority dice renewable with a short rest, Battle Masters can effectively grant attacks to their allies at will, while still getting to attack, if they're 5th level or higher. Looking at the 4e version of Commander's Strike, I can't see what's in it that would make a direct translation more complicated.

Retreater · May 25, 2019

From my game design perspective (which, granted, may not be as strong as others in this thread), I would want to have more than just combat. Maybe include a exploration/trap/skill challenge phase before the combat designed to give the party an edge in the following encounter (or hindrance if it's failed). Then some mechanic would need to be created for daily powers (as resource management is a thing in all editions). Perhaps there are the equivalents of At-Will, Encounter, and then another tier for a more powerful stunt or ability that can be used once per battle (but then you can't access that route of power for the remainder of the fight).

Zardnaar · May 25, 2019

Giltonio_Santos said:
Why do you think so? With 4-6 superiority dice renewable with a short rest, Battle Masters can effectively grant attacks to their allies at will, while still getting to attack, if they're 5th level or higher. Looking at the 4e version of Commander's Strike, I can't see what's in it that would make a direct translation more complicated.

It's because of the Rogue class and some if the other heavy hitters. 4E rogue sneak attack doesn't scale like 3E and 5E.

At will attack granting wouldn't be as bad in OSR games but slightly OP. In 5E attack granting is a short rest ability, in 3E it was a level 1 or 2 spell.

Charlaquin · May 25, 2019

Sacrosanct said:
where combat is the large majority and focus of the design, as opposed to how it is now, with three equal pillars.

Pull the other one!

trancejeremy · May 25, 2019

Sacrosanct said:
For example, going from ascending AC to THAC0 is a pretty radical change.

This is actually not even a change. It's the same exact math, just stated a different way. (And TSR actually came up with Ascending AC as well, but they called attack bonus THAC when they used it in Gamma World)