D&D 4E Intelligent Blademaster Swordmage from 4e, how might I build him for 5e.

Garthanos · Jun 16, 2019

His name is Alek Cor'Daren (Shielding Aegis - an effective Defender - with some good multi-enemy effectiveness)

He had a feat which allowed even his basic attacks (opportunity attacks and granted ones and the like to be based on Intelligence). This feat was part of his origin story and part of what made the character feel special so if necessary I can see how it might take a bit of home brew to bring it for 5e. (as a 4e feat it was comparatively a low price and low impact)

Because of how the system worked both his reflex defense and light armor class were based on that predictive quick thinking instead of reactive dexterity.

His initiative is rather meh and that fits his non-aggressive personality. His con and strength mildly affected some of his abilities so he wasn't completely one sided but they were more than a little secondary or tertiary and I may consider advancing either with levelling. His wisdom doesn't suck but its also nothing to write home about. He may get some Wisdom / Strong Will boosts later in his career.

As a swordmage very much a melee combatant with magical shielding always in play but also affecting allies and very good ac out of this. His hit points comparable to a fighters.

Another feature 2 of the characters 3 at-wills affect multiple nearby enemies

He has at level 1 feat White Lotus Riposte, that snaps back damage Int Mod against enemies that hit him after he uses an at-will attack. (at low levels this is a significant part of his ability)

Based on what I see in 5e I would estimate a 5e build for the level 1 4e character would be
around level 5.

Xeviat · Jun 16, 2019

I would personally look at some blend of the Bladesinger Wizard and the Eldritch Knight Fighter. You're not going to find much in the way of sword attack spells, though. You might be able to ask your DM to get some of the paladin smite spells.

As for getting Int as your attack stat, that's going to be a tough one by the book.

Fenris-77 · Jun 16, 2019

Not really, the Savant class from Touch of Class II covers Intelligence-based combat pretty well. Multiclass that with Bladesinger and you're looking good.

Garthanos · Jun 17, 2019

Xeviat said:
I would personally look at some blend of the Bladesinger Wizard and the Eldritch Knight Fighter. You're not going to find much in the way of sword attack spells, though. You might be able to ask your DM to get some of the paladin smite spells.

As for getting Int as your attack stat, that's going to be a tough one by the book.

Bladesinger has some ingredients the bladesong helps gets defense based on intelligence. (but might not be defender class without a fighting style to help maybe)

Indeed I think the Paladin Smite ability is something i have heard suggested.

I was suspecting a custom feat might be required basically a translation of Intelligent Blademaster - in 4e it was kind of a low impact feat and feats were not nearly as big of deal as they are in 5e but would this be a must have feat for a Bladesinger or Eldritch knight? Eldritch Knights do not have a great rep as a class... so having a flavorful feat that gives them more bite might not be bad.

Garthanos · Jun 17, 2019

Fenris-77 said:
Not really, the Savant class from Touch of Class II covers Intelligence-based combat pretty well. Multiclass that with Bladesinger and you're looking good.

Not something I have read but that does count as homebrew to be honest. Though using level dipping style multi-classing is actually almost like the cost in some ways of 4e feats.

Burnside · Jun 17, 2019

I think Eldritch Knight or Bladesinger, as others have mentioned, would be your best bets using existing rules.

The green-flame blade cantrip would allow you to attack with your sword, do some magical damage, AND apply your spell-casting ability modifier (Intelligence) to your damage roll, although not your attack roll.

The eldritch knight is a fighter who specializes in evocation and abjuration magic, which sounds like the sorts of spells you want. Their hit points are as good as any other fighter.

Bladesingers have an ability that allows them to apply their Intelligence modifier to their AC. At higher levels, they can use magic to absorb damage and eventually apply their intelligence mod to melee damage rolls.

You could also ask your DM if they would allow you to make a warlock who uses intelligence instead of charisma as their spellcasting ability. If so, a Hexblade/Pact of the Blade warlock could get you a lot of what you're looking for. I allow warlocks at my table to choose intelligence, wisdom, or charisma as their spellcasting ability on character creation - so far it has never caused any balance issues, and for rp purposes has allowed players to have warlocks who are smart or crafty and not necessarily social butterflies.

FrogReaver · Jun 17, 2019

You won't be able to base attacks on INT but you can do a split 16/16 setup and then go to 18/18 by the time a single stat PC had their stat to 20. To me that solves the stat issues quite easily.

After that it would be finding abilities that allow you to magically attack. Pretty much booming/greenflame blade covers this.

After that it's getting good defenses. In 5e that's literally about using heavy armor or attacking with dex. In either case you should be covered here.

You need a way to shield allies. There's not many abilities that work here. The abjuration Wizard's ward is about the most notable. So that's what I would aim for.

Finally you need a way to damage enemies that attack you. You need hellish rebuke or something similar for that.

So basically what you need IMO, a fighter 1-4 multiclass with abjuration wizard X that takes the booming blade cantrip, uses lots of abjuration spells, and is allowed to take the hellish rebuke spell.

You would have everything you need by level 7.

gyor · Jun 17, 2019

Artificer Battlesmith is another way to go, just get Magic Innaite Wizard for Greenflame Blade and Booming Blade, and a choice 1st level spell.

Garthanos · Jun 17, 2019

Burnside said:
I think Eldritch Knight or Bladesinger, as others have mentioned, would be your best bets using existing rules.

The green-flame blade cantrip would allow you to attack with your sword, do some magical damage, AND apply your spell-casting ability modifier (Intelligence) to your damage roll, although not your attack roll.

The opposite of Green Flame Blade in 4e interestingly and yes it was one of his abilities. Green Flame blade could affect any number of enemies adjacent to the one you hit though I called it splash damage.

Swordburst is another one of his favorites for clearing out adjacent minions and the like. I kind of like flavoring that one as more martial like a whirling dervish attack.

Burnside said:
The eldritch knight is a fighter who specializes in evocation and abjuration magic, which sounds like the sorts of spells you want. Their hit points are as good as any other fighter.

That part works well enough.

Burnside said:
Bladesingers have an ability that allows them to apply their Intelligence modifier to their AC. At higher levels, they can use magic to absorb damage and eventually apply their intelligence mod to melee damage rolls.

Bladesinger seems to be in every recommendation

Burnside said:
You could also ask your DM if they would allow you to make a warlock who uses intelligence instead of charisma as their spellcasting ability. If so, a Hexblade/Pact of the Blade warlock could get you a lot of what you're looking for. I allow warlocks at my table to choose intelligence, wisdom, or charisma as their spellcasting ability on character creation - so far it has never caused any balance issues, and for rp purposes has allowed players to have warlocks who are smart or crafty and not necessarily social butterflies.

I like that idea in a general sense though I can see how there might be in combat style differences between predictive quick thinking, vs insight and disciplined patient perception vs clever influential trickiness. Though maybe those arent differentiable in spells save by the attribute used.

Garthanos · Jun 17, 2019

gyor said:
Artificer Battlesmith is another way to go, just get Magic Innaite Wizard for Greenflame Blade and Booming Blade, and a choice 1st level spell.

I do not see Iron Defender working for this character so much... but its

[h=4]Battle Ready[/h]When you reach 3rd level, your combat training and your experiments with magic and have paid off in two ways:

You gain proficiency with martial weapons.
When you attack with a magic weapon, you can use your Intelligence modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, for the attack and damage rolls.