D&D 5E Druid Wild Shape and Banishment questions

DND_Reborn · Jul 1, 2019

So two things happened at our table yesterday and I wanted to get info from you guys here:

1. Is a Moon Druid limited to the size beast he can assume with his Wild Shape feature as long as he meets the CR requirement? Our druid changed into a Giant Constrictor Snake (CR 2), but it is a Huge beast. Our DM was certain he read somewhere that a moon druid is limited to Large or smaller beasts, but since he couldn't recall where he let the player change anyway. The player was then very effective at restraining a Green Hag that was part of a coven we were facing.

2. Our Sorcerer leveled at was looking at picking Banishment for a 4th-level spell, but there was some confusion about part of the wording:

If the spell ends before 1 minute has passed, the target reappears in the space it left or in the nearest unoccupied space if that space is occupied. Otherwise, the target doesn’t return.

This seems to imply if there is no unoccupied space, the target never returns. Is that right? It seems like there would always be an unoccupied space somewhere!

Thanks!

jmartkdr · Jul 1, 2019

1. There's no rule about the size of the creature you turn into.

2. The nearest unoccupied space doesn't have to be near - so unless the entire plane of existence you're on is occupied, there's going to be somewhere to return to.

However, the target doesn't return if the spell ends after 1 minute has passed (unless it was on its home plane in the first place.) This is useful for getting rid of outsiders.

DND_Reborn · Jul 1, 2019

jmartkdr said:
1. There's no rule about the size of the creature you turn into.

2. The nearest unoccupied space doesn't have to be near - so unless the entire plane of existence you're on is occupied, there's going to be somewhere to return to.

However, the target doesn't return if the spell ends after 1 minute has passed (unless it was on its home plane in the first place.) This is useful for getting rid of outsiders.

For #1, that doesn't surprise me since I couldn't find any reference to a size limit for Wild Shape.

So that paragraph in Banishment about the creature which is native to a different plane than the one your on won't return if the full minute passes. That makes more sense.

Thanks!

Harzel · Jul 1, 2019

dnd4vr said:
2. Our Sorcerer leveled at was looking at picking Banishment for a 4th-level spell, but there was some confusion about part of the wording:

This seems to imply if there is no unoccupied space, the target never returns. Is that right? It seems like there would always be an unoccupied space somewhere!

Thanks!

Heh. Snared by the old dangling else.

Paul Farquhar · Jul 1, 2019

One thing that has troubled me is the lack of a lower limit on wildshape. So the druid could turn into something small enough to be effectively invisible and intangible, e.g. an amoeba.

S'mon · Jul 1, 2019

Paul Farquhar said:
One thing that has troubled me is the lack of a lower limit on wildshape. So the druid could turn into something small enough to be effectively invisible and intangible, e.g. an amoeba.

If she's familiar with amobae, yes.

Fanaelialae · Jul 1, 2019

I limit the lower end of wild shape to about the size of a fly. While an amoeba might be outside a druid's realm of knowledge, they'd certainly be aware of fleas, and I really don't want to figure out how to adjudicate the druid turning into a flea on a dog in order to spy. The druid would be completely unnoticeable, but so tiny that I don't feel like their senses would be able to perceive the human scale world effectively. Not something I want to have to deal with (my players literally asked me about this during one of our recent games).

DND_Reborn · Jul 1, 2019

Just as druids are limited at 4th and 8th levels, I will probably augment the chart to include sizes when I DM. Something like:

Beast Shapes
Level 2: Max CR 1/4, no flying or swimming, medium size only
Level 4: Max CR 1/2, no flying, small to large sizes
Level 8: Max CR 1, tiny to huge sizes

I think that is reasonable and still allows for a wide variety of wild shapes.

Maxperson · Jul 1, 2019

Paul Farquhar said:
One thing that has troubled me is the lack of a lower limit on wildshape. So the druid could turn into something small enough to be effectively invisible and intangible, e.g. an amoeba.

I'd think a brain would be necessary in order to keep the druid's intelligence and wisdom.