Lanefan
Victoria Rules
Given a decent level of immersion there shouldn't be all that much difference between the two.1) I was speaking about a challenge *to the core of the character*. You are talking about a challenge to *you*, the player. You don't get to change th referent, and then asses my statement against the new referent.
Not all tests are strictly pass-fail.2) I was also pretty clear about what I was talking about when I spoke of challenge in this context. If Chris Claremont writes a comic book about a conflict between Professor X and Magneto, there is no actual challenge to Professor X - only the illusion of one.
2a) You, the player/author may feel anxiety, uncertainty, angst, or other emotions over making a decision - but in the sense I defined it, this is not a "challenge", for the simple reason that there is no success or failure to be had. Mr. Claremont does not "succeed" if Professor X wins the comic book fight. You don't "fail" if the knight chooses chastity over Excalibur. The choice *isn't a test!*
Sometimes all options lead to varying degrees of failure and-or success e.g. choosing the lesser of two (or more) evils.
The questing knight, for example. Forget Excalibur for a moment, and let's just say he's on a quest to retrieve a McGuffin. (let's for argument's sake say he's also straight; and betrothed) At some key moment, probably when he meets her, he realizes the McGuffin's final guardian is its current rightful owner, a very comely commoner lass who seeks a noble husband. Before long he realizes that seducing her is an option, thus presenting him with a lot of to-him-unpalatable choices:
He can choose not to seduce her and thus maintain his chastity while failing his quest
He can choose to seduce her and succeed on his quest while breaking his vow of chastity (and maybe also his betrothal)
He can take the item by force or guile, thus marking himself as a thief and-or liar - though a chaste one
He can denounce her as evil (whether verified mechanically or not) and kill her, thus marking himself as a murderer
He can, rather unchivalrously, kick the problem down the road via letting the rest of his party deal with her while intentionally standing aside.
Every one of these options has elements of pass and elements of fail, all in one; because every one of them tests at least two of: loyalty to vows made; loyalty to quest; respect for laws of the land; and general chivalry. And I'd say this would represent a challenge to all of the character, the character concept, and the player.