5e Capping AC and to hit

Immortal Sun · Apr 18, 2019

I'm not sure what the problem is. Level 20 is the end of the progression chart. You're complaining that characters who've reached max level are kicking butt a little too much? I don't get it.

Want a neat trick? Throw class levels on an ancient dragon. Ideal choices are Barbarian (lots of fun FYI), Cleric, Wizard/Sorcerer or Paladin (evil paladin for extra fun times), Monk is also a good choice (the Open Hand one at least). Bard dragons are just silly.

You've not seen a battle until the dragon with a magic sword slays a hero.

UngeheuerLich · Apr 18, 2019

I think there is no harm of capping AC to 30 and attack bonus to 20. All it prevents is softening the effect of generous magic item distribution maybe combined with powergaming. In that case a cap makes sense.
The barbarian could cast shield if he took magic initiate... but not while raging so it should also be a rare occurence.
The eldritch knight in +3 plate and +3 shield might be the one breaking AC30 on a regular base, but it requires 2 +3 items.

GreyLord · Apr 18, 2019

High Level play allows multiple epic boons and other things that can greatly affect to hit and AC. Combine that with multiple spells, potions, magic items and other things that can be tossed in and eventually you can hit far higher than what most people imagine.

Oofta · Apr 18, 2019

Satyrn said:
Possibly.

We've gotten a couple of groups up to 20 now, but it does take a committed group. But while we had some AC's that could bounce up to the mid-to-upper 20s, I don't recall 30.

Then again, we're pretty stingy with armor higher than a +1.

S'mon · Apr 18, 2019

the Jester said:
How do you get AC 27 and +18 to hit?

For the attack bonus, +6 prof +6 str +3 magic weapon... I'm not sure where the other +3 is coming from.

For the AC... +5 from Dex, +5 Con, maybe +5 from a +3 shield...? Where's the other +2 from?

Not saying it isn't possible, I'm just curious.

But to answer the question in the OP, no, I haven't limited any of the numbers like you suggest, but I haven't seen them jacked up like you are having. The 20th level character in my game (only one so far) has an AC around 18 or 20, and the 19th level paladin is AC 17 and around +11 to hit. Even if I were to see numbers like you do, at extreme high levels, I'm okay with that. Let epic pcs be epic, that's what I say.

EPIC PC

Str 30 +10 prof +6 +2 weapon = +18
10 + CON 28 +9 Dex 19 +4 +3 shield +5 = 28

Sorry I was 1 out

S'mon · Apr 18, 2019

Teulisch said:
barbarian 20? +4 str/con capstone. lets see... 24 con (+7) 20 dex (+5), +3 shield (+5) is AC 27. you could go higher with a ring of protection, and/or a cloak. or an ioun stone of protection. an AC 30 is possible, but thats 3 attunement items.

to hit... str 24 is +7, proficiency is +6, and the weapon is probably +3, but thats only +16. a belt of storm giant strength would give a +9 however, and that would do it.

by comparison a defense-style fighter in +3 full plate with +3 shield is also AC 27.

Yeah even without epic boons +19 to hit is doable. And AC in the 30s very doable which is more of a concern.

Oofta · Apr 18, 2019

S'mon said:
EPIC PC
Str 30 +10 prof +6 +2 weapon = +18
10 + CON 28 +9 Dex 19 +4 +3 shield +5 = 28

Sorry I was 1 out

Well, sky high stats will give you sky high numbers. I'm not even going to guess how someone got a 30 strength (even belts cap out at 29) or a con 28.

Which is fine. But my recommendation would be that if you play a gonzo game, expect gonzo results and adjust monsters accordingly. You also may have been making some wrong assumptions given the basis of 5E.

Not that anything you've done is wrong, it's just that it seems to me like you've kind of broken the game without adjusting the other side of the equation.

S'mon · Apr 18, 2019

Oofta said:
D'oh! You're right. Hmm, then I do have a problem getting to a 30 AC without multiple attunement items or spells.

If spells are an issue than I'd recommend 5-10 fights between long rests, even if that means implementing the alternative rest rules.

I do use 1 week long rests which helps with number of encounters. But level 20 characters have a ton of spell slots. It is very easy to make a level 20 pc with AC in the 30s even before epic boons, while monster to hit caps out around +19. I don't mind pcs min maxing for AC but I think a tarrasque should still have a chance to hit them.

S'mon · Apr 18, 2019

GreyLord said:
High Level play allows multiple epic boons and other things that can greatly affect to hit and AC. Combine that with multiple spells, potions, magic items and other things that can be tossed in and eventually you can hit far higher than what most people imagine.

Yup this is a high magic epic level 5e game set on Golarion, where ancient blue dragons are playthings of the Runelords.

S'mon · Apr 18, 2019

Oofta said:
Well, sky high stats will give you sky high numbers. I'm not even going to guess how someone got a 30 strength (even belts cap out at 29) or a con 28.

Which is fine. But my recommendation would be that if you play a gonzo game, expect gonzo results and adjust monsters accordingly. You also may have been making some wrong assumptions given the basis of 5E.

Not that anything you've done is wrong, it's just that it seems to me like you've kind of broken the game without adjusting the other side of the equation.

Just been using the standard DMG epic progression rules, tuned it down a little. Instead of 30 in all stats per DMG I cap at 30-28-26-24-22-20.

5e Capping AC and to hit

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