House rule for Going below 0 hp and get up again with a good berry or a healing

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
I used the Exhaustion track in place of the 3 Death Saves track in my Curse of Strahd campaign and it worked well enough that I'm using the system again (amended a bit) in my current Eberron campaign. How my system currently works:

First, I changed up the levels of Exhaustion. They now are:

Level 1: Speed to half.
Level 2: Half Max HP.
Level 3: Disadvantage on attacks and saving throws.
Level 4: Disadvantage on skill checks.
Level 5: Unconscious.
Level 6: Death.

When a PC reaches 0 HP they are not "unconscious" per se... they instead just fall down dazed and completely out of it. The game mechanics are the same as the Unconscious condition, but I don't say fluff-wise that they are out cold. When their turn comes around again, they have to make a Death saving throw like they would normally. If they fail, they take 1 failed death save and drop to Level 1 on the Exhaustion chart. For every failed death save after that, they drop down another level. This continues until they have failed their 6th death save and drop to Level 6 on the chart, Death.

Unlike standard death saves, Exhaustion levels do not disappear when the PC gains hit points to bring them above 0. Their exhaustion level remains, as does all the penalties associated with their level. And should they get knocked down to 0 HP again, they pick up where they left off on the chart as they fail more death saves. After the combat is over and regardless of how many HP they regain through healing and spending hit dice and such, they are still at the Exhaustion level they were at through failed death saves.

In terms of regain Exhaustion levels, I've changed that up as well. First off, there is a new chart that shows how many long rests it takes to remove a level of exhaustion. Note that these rests are cumulative-- each extra level of Exhaustion you need to remove based purely on rest doubles the amount of time you need to rest:

To remove one level of Exhaustion: 1 Long Rest
To remove a second level of Exhaustion: 2 Long Rests (meaning 3 LR total)
To remove a third level of Exhaustion: 4 Long Rests (meaning 7 LR or a week total)
To remove a fourth level of Exhaustion: 7 Long Rests (meaning 14 LR or two weeks total)
To remove a fifth level of Exhaustion: 14 Long Rests (meaning 28 LR or an entire month total)

So if a PC gets knocked down to Level 5 Exhaustion, it will take a month of Downtime for them to recover. Does that suck? Oh yeah! Majorly! A character could be removed from action for an entire month in-game. Now granted, as I'm using the Downtime rules and I have 15 total players that come and go every-other-week, the player of the Exhaused PC might not actually have to miss any actual sessions due to their PC being out of it. The story of the campaign might easily see the two weeks to a month happen "between sessions". But because that isn't guaranteed... this does result in players now acting in a way I feel is very important:

All the players know that due to the harsh penalties of reaching 0 HP... it is imperative that all PCs help "spread the wealth" as it were when it comes to running into combat and taking the occasional hit to absorb some damage. In the past over time I found there was nothing more irritating than an Archer ranger player (for instance) refusing to enter melee because they felt like they were a "ranged" character and thus though they were a glass cannon-- despite having just as many hit points as the melee fighters and paladins, and even more HP than the melee rogues and monks who stood in there and took the hits. Any time these rangers got engaged in melee, the response was always "Well, that's it, I'm dead!" It was a stupid attitude then, and a stupid attitude now... and thus this system of mine pretty much assures everyone that they CAN'T just let the platemail-wearing Fighter be the only one in melee, get knocked down to 0, then healed back up, then knocked down again, etc. etc. while everyone else stays at a safe distance. Because those Exhaustion levels will catch up pretty quickly, and everyone will find that a Tank with Level 3 Exhaustion that is attacking and saving with Disadvantage and who need an entire week of rest before he's good again, makes for pretty poor adventuring. Which is exactly the way I like to run it. :)

PS: Two other additional rules I have in my system is that any Exhausted PC who spends their first Long Rest being tended to by another party member (who uses their Long Rest to do the tending and thus not get any other benefits) can get a second Exhaustion level removed "for free". On top of that... I also rule that the Lesser Restoration spell can be cast on an Exhausted character once to remove one level of Exhaustion "for free" as well. A second Lesser Restoration spell will not do any additional help until all levels of Exhaustion have been removed, at which time both it and the "tending" bonus are reset. So things are actually not as onerous as they might seem, as a healer who spends a Long Rest first casting Lesser Restoration and then tending to an Exhausted PC can move them from Level 3 Exhaustion to no longer exhausted in a single Long Rest. But that's just for one PC... the others better have available party members to tend to them too. ;)
 
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Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
So, some insight: I have run with a house rule where instead of dying, every failed death save gave one level of exhaustion. The idea was to make HP definitively not-meat and mike failed death saves definitively represent injuries. I also swapped the names of Potions of Healing and Potions of Vitality, and made Potions of Vitality more common to compensate for exhaustion being more common as well.

In my experience, this ended up being too punitive. I really liked the verisimilitude it added, and how it made dropping to 0 HO a really scary thing at all levels. Unfortunately, it also created a serious death spiral effect that carried over from one fight to the next, which I found to be much too harsh. Basically, as soon as anyone in the party got one level of exhaustion, it was time to retreat and return to town/camp immediately unless you had enough Potions of Vitality Healing to get rid of all of their exhaustion.
 
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[MENTION=7006]DEFCON 1[/MENTION] Wait. At 0 hps, they can keep attacking at half movement but still have to make death saves until they are healed above 0? If so, I like this rule. Being at 0 also presents the risk of being killed instantly by massive damage.

Or are they instead incapacitated?
 
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robus

Lowcountry Low Roller
Supporter
What I like about the exhaustion/wounds variant is that it makes the PCs have to decide what to risk during? Can they afford to let one of the team go down and suffer a setback? Or does someone need to make a beeline and help them stay in the fight? So rather see it as a death spiral, I see it as adding to the interesting decisions the group needs to make during combat. And, heck, it just takes one death spiral to let them know that dropping to 0 hp is generally not a good plan :) And the wound/exhaustion level can be removed by spending additional resources. Decisions, decisions...
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
Wait. At 0 hps, they can keep attacking at half movement but still have to make death saves until they are healed above 0? If so, I like this rule. Being at 0 also presents the risk of being killed instantly by massive damage.

Or are they instead incapacitated?

No, they are still incapacitated at 0 HP. The PC still has all the effects of the Unconscious condition like normal, I just don't narrate the story that they have "been knocked out" or "fallen unconscious".

That's not to say you couldn't use my system such that PCs could remain active at 0 HP and still use their actions as normal (while also making death saves at the same time.) It could certainly be used that way to represent their "final bow" as it were... fighting on their last legs in hopes of defeating the enemy before they die (like Boromir did at the end of Fellowship.) But were I to do that... I'd probably make it a switch the player could turn on upon hitting 0 HP-- either they fall down with the Unconscious condition (and thus all the standard rules for rolling death saves and being hit while "unconscious" would apply as normal)... or they could remain on their feet at 0 HP and go into "Final stand" mode... where they can stay up, retain their actions and keep fighting, but automatically fail every death save each turn without rolling (and thus have 6 rounds until Level 6 Exhaustion occurs and they die.)

I don't know if I would add that personally to my system, mainly because I don't think I have many players who would ever actually use "Final stand" mode... but for some others it might be a cool addition.
 

Sadras

Legend
5ekyu said:
But thats me... And my players.

Fair enough. Our table is used to using the exhaustion track for many a thing - dropping below 0hp, lack of sleep, recharging abilities...etc

The easiest thing to do is to make the rolls secretly. ...(snip)...

That said, there's probably more drama if everyone knows you are one roll away from death, forcing people to scramble and make sacrifices to get to you before you die.

IMO rolling them all in one go makes the game more tense and PCs now immediately scramble to heal fallen PCs not willing to risk a death.
 

5ekyu

Hero
Fair enough. Our table is used to using the exhaustion track for many a thing - dropping below 0hp, lack of sleep, recharging abilities...etc



IMO rolling them all in one go makes the game more tense and PCs now immediately scramble to heal fallen PCs not willing to risk a death.
"Fair enough. Our table is used to using the exhaustion track for many a thing - dropping below 0hp, lack of sleep, recharging abilities...etc "

One of those things is not like the other... :).

I also like using exhaustion for a larger variety than the rulebooks establish as core.

End of days travel with carrying heavy (non-light) load...
Sleep in armor...
Success at cost consequence...
Etc Etc Etc...

But we prefer those types of CHOICES as the triggers, not bad dice flukes that happen tp pass a threshold.

Its same reason we dont add more crit fumble crit effects to die natural this or that dice.

We want to empower the characters and/or their choices - not dice swings.
 

thank you all for all you input. it have given me a lot to think about. just talked to 1 of my players he told me he will not play any more if i make a house rule that only will affect the players. and he is correct on this 98 - 99 % of the time this house rule will only affect the player. so a lot to think about
 

Al2O3

Explorer
One thing I got curious about when reading this thread:
What's the point? Why do you want to add the house rule in the first place? If you want more characters to die, then it's probably a good idea.

In my group the DM got annoyed and frustrated at how often fights would end up with PCs going down, getting healed and up again for half a round and then go down again. They considered adding a rule along the lines discussed here, but then we realised that the problem was that each fight was too hard. It was simply not possible to keep charters above 0 hp longer by healing them, no matter what the penalty for failing was.

The solution was to throw out the random encounters from ToA and instead go with prepared fights. Using the guidelines about how many encounters per long rest a party should be able to handle and skipping the constant deadly fights suits the tone we want much better. Going to 0 hp note indicates that we have a problem, not that everything's normal. We still use at least as much resources per adventuring day as before.

One other thing we did was splitting mechanical long rests from narrative rests. A mechanical long rest is still a narrative night, but we can still perform a few days travel to change environment without regaining resources.

tl;dr Unless you and your players agree about what the issue is, I doubt that any house rule will fix it.
 

5ekyu

Hero
One thing I got curious about when reading this thread:
What's the point? Why do you want to add the house rule in the first place? If you want more characters to die, then it's probably a good idea.

In my group the DM got annoyed and frustrated at how often fights would end up with PCs going down, getting healed and up again for half a round and then go down again. They considered adding a rule along the lines discussed here, but then we realised that the problem was that each fight was too hard. It was simply not possible to keep charters above 0 hp longer by healing them, no matter what the penalty for failing was.

The solution was to throw out the random encounters from ToA and instead go with prepared fights. Using the guidelines about how many encounters per long rest a party should be able to handle and skipping the constant deadly fights suits the tone we want much better. Going to 0 hp note indicates that we have a problem, not that everything's normal. We still use at least as much resources per adventuring day as before.

One other thing we did was splitting mechanical long rests from narrative rests. A mechanical long rest is still a narrative night, but we can still perform a few days travel to change environment without regaining resources.

tl;dr Unless you and your players agree about what the issue is, I doubt that any house rule will fix it.
You raise what is to me a key fsctor.. what is the gosl?

I have not found it to be true that players are deciding and choosing "hey, let's play and work so we get KOed and yhfn brought back since there is no penalty for death szves."

If it's not a choice then it's not gonna discourage thrm to pile on penalties.

If it doesn't result in deaths, then you end up pushing for more rests to best the penalties and less pressing on.
 

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