D&D 5E Wizards (et al.) Casting Known Spells?

Ashrym · Jun 11, 2019

Laurefindel said:
That would leave the ranger as the only divine caster, getting rid of wizard, druid, paladin, and cleric, making the bard the main healer and the warlock the most priestly-type character. A whole lot of spells would exist as magical secrets for bard only, although the divine soul sorcerer technically covers all of the cleric spells.

that would be a very cool campaign premise, but a clear departure from the base assumptions of a typical D&D game.

Divine vs not divine spells is fluff and the priest background over-rides "priestly" classes for anyone who wants the fluff. Religion is also easy to tie in regardless of background.

I've played campaigns banning magical healing too. It's also unnecessary in 5e because of the healer feat, potions on the equipment list, and hit dice healing on short rests. Plus the various class self healing that may be available.

If a group does believe they need a dedicated magic healer then bards work and divine sorcerers as an alternative.

It plays just fine.

Riley37 · Jun 11, 2019

On one hand, clerics, paladins and some druids already have spells known, in the sense of always prepared: clerics have domain spells, Land druids have terrain-specific spells, and paladins have Oath-specific spells.

On another hand, if the issue is "players spend too much table time deciding which spells to prepare", then this is a drastic in-game change, affecting everyone in the setting, to solve a problem with player behavior. Players spend time making choices which may have consequences: this is the core difference between reading a novel and playing TRPG. If other players get bored, how about this solution: the bored players ask the dithering players to get it over with, so the story can move forwards. Sometimes the best way to influence player behavior, is a conversation at the table, rather than a shift in the fundamental mechanics of the setting.

On the gripping hand: try it and see! With a backup plan for reversion. Maybe explain it as a transient shift in the Weave.

DND_Reborn · Jun 11, 2019

Greenstone.Walker said:
Why do you feel this time is a waste, as opposed to "a fun part of the game."? Are the players of those wizards and clerics complaining?

The cleric/wizard players complain a bit, but also the other players waiting for the discussion of "what to prepare today". I was thinking also of suggesting to those players to prep 3x5 cards with "combat", "in town", "traveling", etc. for what the player expects for the day. That would cut down on the wasted time.

I think the CDW classes would have enough spells and maybe we'll try it out. I'll post what happens when we play on Saturday.

Swarmkeeper · Jun 11, 2019

Riley37 said:
On one hand, clerics, paladins and some druids already have spells known, in the sense of always prepared: clerics have domain spells, Land druids have terrain-specific spells, and paladins have Oath-specific spells.

On another hand, if the issue is "players spend too much table time deciding which spells to prepare", then this is a drastic in-game change, affecting everyone in the setting, to solve a problem with player behavior. Players spend time making choices which may have consequences: this is the core difference between reading a novel and playing TRPG. If other players get bored, how about this solution: the bored players ask the dithering players to get it over with, so the story can move forwards. Sometimes the best way to influence player behavior, is a conversation at the table, rather than a shift in the fundamental mechanics of the setting.

Agreed to all this. Personally, I think it all works well as is, but if your table is one that has fun experimenting then:

Riley37 said:
On the gripping hand: try it and see! With a backup plan for reversion. Maybe explain it as a transient shift in the Weave.

dnd4vr said:
The cleric/wizard players complain a bit, but also the other players waiting for the discussion of "what to prepare today". I was thinking also of suggesting to those players to prep 3x5 cards with "combat", "in town", "traveling", etc. for what the player expects for the day. That would cut down on the wasted time.

It seems to me that the true underlying cause of the complaining and delays might be that the players are not taking time between sessions to master their characters. I find this frustrating as a DM as I spend a decent amount of time away from the table preparing the campaign - it's not much to ask that players spend a small fraction of that time between sessions thinking about their characters and reading up on any newly acquired abilities and spells. Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled to teach and assist new players and have great patience for them. But when a veteran player comes to the table unprepared... yeah, that just shouldn't happen regularly.

In any case, any tricks you can employ to get the players to organize their spells is well worth the time savings in play, IME. For example, I strongly encourage my players to print character specific spell sheets using www.dnd-spells.com so that searching through the PHB is kept to a minimum. I really like your idea of using 3x5 cards to get your players to organize spell groupings based on expectations for the day. The very exercise of having them do that could have the added benefit of getting them to learn about each spell more deeply. Let us know how that works out for your table!

Riley37 · Jun 11, 2019

dnd4vr said:
I was thinking also of suggesting to those players to prep 3x5 cards with "combat", "in town", "traveling", etc. for what the player expects for the day.

At the table where I regularly play, the paladin player has a "town" spell prep list and a "dangerous territory" spell prep list. Maybe the paladin and the cleric would gain in-game efficiency if they coordinated to make sure that one or other has Locate Object and Lesser Restoration; but maybe that in-game efficiency isn't worth table time.

I play a sorceror/bard/warlock (currently S2/B1/W3), so I only have decisions to make at level-up transitions. (That one level in Bard added four known spells to my list!)

Dausuul · Jun 11, 2019

Greenstone.Walker said:
Why do you feel this time is a waste, as opposed to "a fun part of the game."? Are the players of those wizards and clerics complaining?

D&D is a group game. If the wizards and clerics are holding up the game while they dither over spell choices, that's not a "fun part of the game" for anyone not playing a wizard or cleric. The same thing sometimes happens in combat where a caster will bring the encounter to a screeching halt while they try to figure out which spell to use.

DND_Reborn · Jun 12, 2019

Yeah, we use the dnd-spells.com website and it helps some, but I agree I think part of the problem is two players basically only do stuff during session time and we lose time often. But they are new, don't have books, and work a lot so the rest of us try to be as understanding as possible. I usually host the game so I have been trying to encourage them to arrive early so I can help if they need it. Anyway, thanks for the advice and we'll see how things go.