Need American Revolution Naval help

I am starting on the American Revolution era for my game and I need some help from someone who knows about ships during that time.
Anyone here know about it or can someone suggest another forum?
I need about 10 representative ships from that time. I've found lists of ships but I don't know enough to know what is common and what is unusual.

thanks!!!

Do you need to know about warships or merchantmen or both? With regard to the latter, your division is largely between coastal types, ocean-going types, and inland types. With the warships, it's Ships of the Line, Frigates, and a wide variety of smaller vessels with an assortment of quite specialised types usually depending on the number of masts and the layout of the rigging - schooners, sloops, ketches, brigs and so on are all about the same size but have different layouts.

Basically at least one of everything. Whatever was common at the time.

See: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?486402-Ships-of-the-American-Revolution

That's a very good link, at least for the American side of things. The European navies bring ships of the line, older 64s and newer 74s and 80s of two decks and a small number of three deckers. Less of those than you'd see frigates, though apart from single ships escorting convoys (where they could see off any frigates) they'd usually be grouped in squadrons or fleets.

Merchantmen range from, at the upper limit, ships the size of small ships of the line - the East India Companies bigger Indiamen are good examples, a couple of them being bought by the RN and converted into 56-gun fourth rates and used for convoy escort. There are vastly more little coastal boats running between two local ports, often under 100-tons displacement.

[MENTION=49017]Bluenose[/MENTION] Sounds like you know a lot about the subject! Cool!
Well I've got a list of ships that I have converted so far. Maybe you could look it over and make some corrections? The information that I have been able to find has been of varying usefulness.

This is what I have so far. Some of this is cut and paste based on scale so some will be wrong.


Age of Revolution Ships



1st Rate Ship of the Line
Warship
Scale: Large Strong Transport (12)
Wounds: 60/120/180/240 vehicle scale
DR: 25
Weapons Fore: Culverin x 10
Weapons Aft: Culverin x 12
Weapons Broadside: Cannon x 22, Demi-Cannon x 22
Str +80 for hauling cargo
Length 70-120ft
Speed: 8-9 knots with a sail/7 knots w/rowers
Maneuver -7
Defense: 11/14
Crew/Passengers: 850/100


A 1st rate was a rare type of Ship of the Line only in commission during a time of war. They were primarily Flag Ships for Admirals when used at all.
A 1st rate Ship of the Line had 100-120 cannons on 3 gun decks.
To the left is the HMS Victory. She was Lord Nelson’s flagship at the Battle of Trafalgar.


2nd Rate Ship of the Line
Warship
Scale: Medium Strong Transport (11)
Wounds: 32/64/96/128 vehicle scale
DR: 25
Weapons Fore: Culverin x 6
Weapons Aft: Culverin x 10
Weapons Broadside:
Cannon x 18, Demi-Cannon x 18
Str +60 for hauling cargo
Length 70-120ft
Speed: 11-15 knots with a sail/7 knots w/rowers
Maneuver +4
Defense: 12/16
Crew/Passengers: 350/75

A 2nd rate Ship of the Line had 90-98 cannons on 3 gun decks. To the right is the HMS Royal Katherine (1664). It fought in several wars and was rebuilt in 1742-3 and renamed the HMS Ramillies.



Galleon
Warship/Merchantman
Scale: Medium Strong Transport (11)
Wounds: 32/64/96/128 vehicle scale
DR: 25
Weapons Fore: Culverin x4
Weapons Aft: Culverin x 10
Weapons Broadside: Culverin x 16, Demi-Cannon x 16
Str +60 for hauling cargo
Length 70-120ft
Speed: 11-15 knots with a sail/7 knots w/rowers
Maneuver +4
Defense: 12/16
Crew/Passengers: 200/60


The term Galleon evolved from the war Galley of the Middle Ages but the ship evolved from the Carrack. It became longer, lowered the forecastle to reduce wind resistance, and narrower. Some had rowing decks but they were mainly powered by the wind. They had either 3 or 4 sails with the last a Lateen sail for better maneuverability. They were heavily used by the Spanish.
3rd Rate Ship of the Line
Warship
Scale: Small Strong Transport (10)
Wounds: 16/32/48/64 vehicle scale
DR: 15
Weapons Fore: Demi-Culverin x 4
Weapons Aft: Demi- Culverin x 6
Weapons Broadside: Culverin x 28
Str +50 for hauling cargo
Length 70-120ft
Speed: 11-15 knots with a sail/7 knots w/rowers
Maneuver +3
Defense: 13/16
Crew/Passengers: 250/50

A 3rd rate Ship of the Line had 64-80 cannons on 2 gun decks. To the right is the HMS Hercule, a captured French 3rd Rate that was recommissioned as an English 3rd Rate.




Galley
Galleys were the primary warship used for centuries. They were mainly driven by oars with their sail only used occasionally during good weather with the wind going in the right direction. They were much more maneuverable than the single mast sailing ships of the time period.
They were mainly used along the coasts and in the Mediterranean.

Warship
Scale: Small Standard Transport (10)
Wounds: 16/32/48/64 vehicle scale
DR: 15
Str +50 for hauling cargo
Length 70-120ft
Speed: 7-10 knots with a sail/7 knots w/rowers
Crew/Passengers: 200/60
Handling (T) -4
Maneuver +0
Size: 5/+3/+0
Defense: 10/10

Weapons Fore: Demi-Culverin x 1
Weapons Aft: Minion x 1
Weapons Broadside: None






East Indiaman
Merchantman
Scale: Small Strong Transport (10)
Wounds: 16/32/48/64vehicle scale
DR: 15
Weapons Fore: Demi-Culverin x 4
Weapons Aft: Demi-Culverin x 6
Weapons Broadside: Demi-Culverin x 24
Str +50 for hauling cargo
Length 70-120ft
Speed: 4-5 knots with a sail
Maneuver +3
Defense: 13/16
Crew/Passengers: 200/60
These were built by the various East India companies (Dutch, English or Scandinavian) to bring back tea, china, silk and spices. Over the years, the high castles disappeared in favour of a lower beamier shape. In capacity they ranged from 600-1500 tons but the speed remained around 4-5 knots for an average of 120 miles/day.

Caravel
Merchantman
Scale: Small Strong Transport (10)
Wounds: 16/32/48/64 vehicle scale
DR: 15
Weapons Fore: Demi-Culverin x 2
Weapons Aft: Demi-Culverin x 4
Weapons Broadside: Demi-Culverin x 12
Str +50 for hauling cargo
Length 70-120ft
Speed: 11-15 knots with a sail/7 knots w/rowers
Maneuver +3
Defense: 13/16
Crew/Passengers: 200/60
A Caravel was a small, highly maneuverable ship that was one of the first ships that could tack into the wind. They were the main ships used by the Portuguese to explore the Atlantic and African coast.




4th Rate Ship of the Line
Warship
Scale: Huge Strong Vehicle (9)
Wounds: 8/16/24/32 vehicle scale
DR: 10
Weapons Fore: Demi-Culverin x 4
Weapons Aft: Demi-Culverin x 4
Weapons Broadside: Culverin x 28
Str +40 for hauling cargo
Length 35-70ft
Speed: 11-15 knots with a sail/2-4 knots w/rowers
Maneuver +4
Defense: 14
Crew/Passengers: 200/50

Aka Cruisers
A Cruiser had 50 to 60 cannons on 2 gun decks. Several East Indiamen were converted into 4th rates for wartime or convoy duty.


Flute (or Fluyt – pronounced Flight)
Merchantman
Scale: Huge Strong Vehicle (9)
Wounds: 8/16/24/32 vehicle scale
DR: 10
Weapons Fore: None
Weapons Aft: Culverin x 4
Weapons Broadside: Culverin x 14
Str +40 for hauling cargo
Length 35-70ft
Speed: 11-15 knots with a sail/2-4 knots w/rowers
Maneuver +4
Defense: 14
Crew/Passengers: 100/20
Flute is a type of armed cargo vessel that had a shallow draft which allowed it much farther into riverways and closer to many ports. It was very common type of Dutch built ship that was made for cargo hauling. It can hold twice as much cargo as another ship of its size since it doesn’t have to double as a warship. It was also much cheaper to build.


Brigantine
Warship/Merchantman
Scale: Huge Strong Vehicle (9)
Wounds: 14/21/28/35 vehicle scale
DR: 14
Str +40 for hauling cargo
Length 35-70ft
Speed: 11-15 knots with a sail/2-4 knots w/rowers
Maneuver +4
Defense: 14
Crew/Passengers: 120/50


Sloop of War
Warship/Merchantman
Scale: Large Strong Vehicle (8)
Wounds: 10/15/20/25 vehicle scale
DR: 10
Str +30 for hauling cargo
Length 21-35ft
Speed: 11-15 knots with a sail/2-4 knots w/rowers
Maneuver +4
Defense: 15/16
Crew/Passengers: 50/10
A Sloop of War was a three mast ship that had 16 to 18 cannons on a single gun deck.


Frigate
Warship
Scale: Large Strong Vehicle (8)
Wounds: 10/15/20/25 vehicle scale
DR: 10
Weapons Fore: None
Weapons Aft: Demi-Culverin x 4
Weapons Broadside: Culverin x 16
Str +30 for hauling cargo
Length 21-35ft
Speed: 11-15 knots with a sail/2-4 knots w/rowers
Maneuver +4
Defense: 15/16
Crew/Passengers: 100/20

Aka 5th Rate, a Frigate had 32 to 44 cannons on 1 to 2 decks. They were the hardest working ships in a fleet. They were used on patrol duty along shipping lanes. They were sometimes placed in charge of a squadron of corvettes for anti-piracy duty. A posting on a frigate was highly sought after. They operated more independently and saw a lot of action. This led to faster promotions.


Holk
Coastal Merchantman
Scale: Large Standard Vehicle (8)
Wounds: 5/10/15/20 vehicle scale
DR: 5 (wood)
Str +30 for hauling cargo
Length 21-35ft
Speed: 1-2 knots using pole, speed of the river going down stream/2-4 knots w/rowers
Maneuver -11
Defense: 4
Crew/Passengers: 12-25/60


A Holk (or Hulk) was the hull of a ship without the sail or other gear related to sailing. It was the result of taking a ship that was no longer sea worthy but would still float and striping it down. Holks were run along a coast or open rivers. Many were basically little more than towed barges.


Corvette
Warship
Scale: Large Strong Vehicle (8)
Wounds: 10/15/20/25 vehicle scale
DR: 10
Str +30 for hauling cargo
Length 21-35ft
Speed: 11-15 knots with a sail/2-4 knots w/rowers
Maneuver +4
Defense: 15/16
Crew/Passengers: 70/20
Corvettes were mainly used in escort and anti-piracy duties.


Cromster
Warship/Merchantman
Scale: Large Strong Vehicle (8)
Wounds: 10/15/20/25 vehicle scale
DR: 10
Str +30 for hauling cargo
Length 21-35ft
Speed: 11-15 knots with a sail/2-4 knots w/rowers
Maneuver +4
Defense: 15/16
Crew/Passengers: 50/10
A smaller version of a Galleon.


Schooner
Warship/Coastal/Merchantman
Scale: Large Strong Vehicle (8)
Wounds: 10/15/20/25 vehicle scale
DR: 10
Str +30 for hauling cargo
Length 21-35ft
Speed: 11-15 knots with a sail/2-4 knots w/rowers
Maneuver +4
Defense: 15/16
Crew/Passengers: 50/20

Schooners are designed with a shallow draft which allows them to get closer to the coast and various islands. This makes them the ship of choice for pirates and privateers.

Bilander
Coastal Merchantman
Scale: Medium Standard Vehicle (7)
Wounds: 3/6/9/12 vehicle scale
DR: 3
Str +20 for hauling cargo
Length 14-21ft
Speed: 11-15 knots with a sail/2-4 knots w/rowers
Maneuver +4
Defense: 16/17
Crew/Passengers: 8/7

Saique
Merchantman
Scale: Medium Standard Vehicle (7)
Wounds: 3/6/9/12 vehicle scale
DR: 3
Str +20 for hauling cargo
Length 14-21ft
Speed: 11-15 knots with a sail/2-4 knots w/rowers
Maneuver +4
Defense: 16/17
Crew/Passengers: 10/5
Small trading vessel used along the Mediterranean.


Barge
Coastal Merchantman
Scale: Medium Standard Vehicle (7)
Wounds: 3/6/9/12 vehicle scale
DR: 5 (wood)
Str +20 for hauling cargo
Length 14-21ft
Speed: 11-15 knots with a sail/2-4 knots w/rowers
Maneuver +4
Defense: 16/17
Crew/Passengers: 2/5


Pinnacle (aka Ship's Boat)
Auxiliary
Scale: Small Standard Vehicle (6)
Wounds: 2/4/6/8 vehicle scale
DR: 5 (wood)
Str +10 for hauling cargo
Length 7-14ft
Speed: 4-5 knots with a sail/2-4 knots w/rowers
Maneuver +2
Defense: 17/19
Crew/Passengers: 3-5/7

A Pinnacle was a small, single mast boat, which was stored on board a Medium or Larger Trader. They were mainly used to ferry cargo from ship to shore.



Rowboat
Scale: Small Standard Vehicle (6)
Wounds: 2/4/6/8 vehicle scale
DR: 5 (wood)
Weapons:
Str +10 for hauling cargo
Length 7-14ft
Speed: 1-2 knots using pole/oar, speed of the river going down stream
Maneuver -4
Defense: 13
Crew/Passengers: 1-2/3
Rowboats were mainly used to go from a larger ship to shore or from ship to ship. They were usually stored on board of a Medium or Large Trader. However on calmer waters they can be just tied behind another vessel that doesn't have the deck space.



Xebec
Warship/Coastal/Merchantman
Scale: Large Strong Vehicle (8)
Wounds: 10/15/20/25 vehicle scale
DR: 10
Str +30 for hauling cargo
Length 25-35ft
Speed: 11-15 knots with a sail/2-4 knots w/rowers
Maneuver +4
Defense: 15/16
Crew/Passengers: 100/200
A Xebec was a sailing ship primarily used in the Mediterranean by several nations.


Large Brig
Warship/Merchantman
Scale: Medium Strong Transport (11)
Wounds: 32/64/96/128 vehicle scale
DR: 25
Weapons Fore: Culverin x4
Weapons Aft: Culverin x 10
Weapons Broadside: Culverin x 16, Demi-Cannon x 16
Str +60 for hauling cargo
Length 70-120ft
Speed: 11-15 knots with a sail/7 knots w/rowers
Maneuver +4
Defense: 12/16
Crew/Passengers: 200/60


Small Brig
Warship/Merchant
Scale: Small Strong Transport (10)
Wounds: 16/32/48/64 vehicle scale
DR: 15
Weapons Fore: Demi-Culverin x 4
Weapons Aft: Demi- Culverin x 6
Weapons Broadside: Culverin x 28
Str +50 for hauling cargo
Length 70-120ft
Speed: 11-15 knots with a sail/7 knots w/rowers
Maneuver +3
Defense: 13/16
Crew/Passengers: 250/50


Cutter

Clipper

74

I recommend picking up a copy of Wooden Ships & Iron Men. Even if you don't use any of the wargame mechanics you can mine it for good info on the age of sail.

garrowolf said:

This is what I have so far. Some of this is cut and paste based on scale so some will be wrong.

Click to expand...

A lot of those numbers are wrong. I don't know the exact specifications for all ship types, but if all ships have so many errors like the 1st rate (based on the Victory) then you are in for a lot of adjustment.

1. The sizes are way to small. The Victory is twice the size you listed here. The error in size seems to get worse the smaller the ships get. A frigate was 4-5 times the listed size of 35ft.
2. Crew needs adjustments. 1st rates had a crew of about 500-600 and not the 850 listed by you. But it also goes into the other direction as 2nd rates had not that much less crew than 1st rates, certainly more than the 250 you listed (they probably had 500).
3. I do not know how accurate you want to be with the cannons, but first notice that your ships have less cannons than what they have according to their rating. Also while certainly usable I associate the type of the cannons you use with land warfare. In naval warfare the cannons were differentiated by shot weight (6, 12, 18, 24, 32 pounds and 64 pound carronades). Swivels (small anti personal cannons) were usually not counted.
4. You are missing the 72 gun 3rd rate. That was the main ship of the line of the time. The 2nd rate was rather rare as for nearly the same price you could build a 1st rate instead.
5. Rowing speeds seem quite high, especially considering that most ships did not employ rowers as form of propulsion at all and instead had to be towed by their own rowboats if there was no wind.

Those sizes were a cut and paste error. Thanks for catching that!
I am lost when it comes to crew sizes. I appreciate that. Sometimes I find some details about a ship and little for the next.
Give me a bit and I will post some of those corrections!