D&D 4E What was the big difference between 4e and "essentials"?

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Mechanically, the characters were entirely different (sorry @Jester David). They entirely went away from the AEDU framework where each character was designed the same with the same number of powers.
AEDU stands for At-Will, Encounter, Daily, Utility. There's nothing about the AEDU system that necessitates each character to have the same number of each type of power at the same levels, that's just how 4e classes happened to be designed up until the PHB 3. So, while Essentials variants of previously existing classes were structured entirely differently than their pre-essentials counterparts, AEDU was not the thing that changed.

You're going to get a lot of answers about redefining class power structures, different approach to design for each class, and better math balance. But what you really need to understand is that Essentials was a mistake. It was the company back peddling from its original design goals trying to appease and regain a section of the playerbase that wasn't subscribing to their new approach. But by introducing this radical change in direction, they only managed to confuse, frustrate, and divide the small following that they had. That is not to say that Essentials wasn't good or had any merit, but like everything else at the time, they just expected us to accept it and cram it into the existing game. It was the beginning of the end, or maybe the "hail mary" pass at the end.
Essentials may have been a mistake, but it definitely wasn't back peddling from the original design goals of 4e. As [MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION] pointed out, it was actually closer to the original design goals of 4e. It's just that by the time it came out, most of the 4e fandom was already invested in the pre-Essentials design.

That said, I would definitely use Essentials exclusively as a "Basic" version of the game today for friends and family who are more casual players, and reserve 4e Core for the more hardcore table. Either way, still my edition of choice. But like the peas and gravy on my plate, I like to keep them separate.
While I agree that pre-essentials 4e and post-essentials 4e are both great and best kept separate, I wouldn't necessarily label Essentials as the "basic" version of the more "hardcore" 4e. It was marketed that way, but that was one of the many mistakes that were made with Essentials.

To answer your question, [MENTION=23]Ancalagon[/MENTION], Essentials was basically 4.5e, branded as 4e lite, and touted as back-compatible with 4.0e. As much as I love it, it was a complete and utter marketing debacle.
 

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Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Mechanically, the characters were entirely different. They entirely went away from the AEDU framework where each character was designed the same with the same number of powers.
AEDU stands for At-Will, Encounter, Daily, Utility. There's nothing about the AEDU system that necessitates each character to have the same number of each type of power at the same levels, that's just how 4e classes happened to be designed up until the PHB 3. So, while Essentials variants of previously existing classes were structured entirely differently than their pre-essentials counterparts, AEDU was not the thing that changed.

I think you overly focused on "AEDU" and didn't realize that that was only part of what I said. I took what you quoted and did some bolding so it's obvious what the entire context was.

So, where each character has the same number and types of powers, and there is a shared framework for what power types and the rate of accumulation by level and those powers are described by AEDU - that's what I'm talking about. And Essential characters definitely deviated from that. PHB3 may have deviated from it as well, it's been a while.

You can't just separate out the AEDU part and discard the rest of the context.
 

I think you overly focused on "AEDU" and didn't realize that that was only part of what I said. I took what you quoted and did some bolding so it's obvious what the entire context was.

So, where each character has the same number and types of powers, and there is a shared framework for what power types and the rate of accumulation by level and those powers are described by AEDU - that's what I'm talking about. And Essential characters definitely deviated from that. PHB3 may have deviated from it as well, it's been a while.

You can't just separate out the AEDU part and discard the rest of the context.

But, again, that deviation predates Essentials with the PHB3.
And even in the PHB1 the wizard knew more Daily powers than other classes, even if they were limited in use. And the barbarian also varied the template with the rage strike.

Essentials was different. But compared to 3e or 5e, the differences between Esentials and vanilla 4e are largely cosmetic and minor and the games are significantly more compatible than even a parallel game like Gamma World.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I think you overly focused on "AEDU" and didn't realize that that was only part of what I said. I took what you quoted and did some bolding so it's obvious what the entire context was.

So, where each character has the same number and types of powers, and there is a shared framework for what power types and the rate of accumulation by level and those powers are described by AEDU - that's what I'm talking about. And Essential characters definitely deviated from that. PHB3 may have deviated from it as well, it's been a while.

You can't just separate out the AEDU part and discard the rest of the context.
Ah, I see. It read to me like you were saying that AEDU was the framework wherein each character was designed with the same number of powers. If that wasn’t your intent, I apologize for the misunderstanding. Though in that case, the mention of AEDU does seem a little misplaced.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Essentials was different. But compared to 3e or 5e, the differences between Esentials and vanilla 4e are largely cosmetic and minor and the games are significantly more compatible than even a parallel game like Gamma World.

Completely agree with you, but the topic of this post is explicitly between 4e and Essentials. So only looking at the context of those two, this was one of the bigger changes.

As you and others pointed out, there had been some variation before this, but they were at least on the same page. Essentials classes though didn't attempt to mimic the same framework of power acquisition.
 

MwaO

Adventurer
I think one of the basic issues is that WotC's had a very complex relationship with the power of multi-attacking and stacking bonuses for a very long time. But I think Essentials introduced 3 basic concepts new to 4e that were self-destructive:
Single basic attack attackers — ideally, a striker takes out an at-level standard with about 4 hits, no matter what level they are. Monsters gain 8 hp per level, so damage per standard action attack then needs to increase at about 2 hp per level. This is easiest to achieve by doing 2 attacks per round that then do 1 hp extra per level. And because most Essentials strikers didn't get encounter attack powers, they couldn't fix any issues by poaching other powers.

Using Expertise/Defense feats as design space without then clearing out all the garbage elements that allowed a +1/2/3 to hit or defenses via weird bonuses. That did two things — allowed excessive stacking on defenses *and* made getting 2-3 feats by 11th level essential. When most PCs only have 7 feats and every PC is taking 2-3 feats, it makes most builds boring in the area of most play.

Having Mearls do the Essentials Hybrids, which basically gave most of the benefits of being an Essentials class in many cases, but without the downsides. And just bizarre valuations of hybrid talent options.

--------

i.e. in combo, Essential Strikers generally stopped working in low Paragon, people playing other versions of 4e got duplicate math fixes that stacked, and a couple of Essentials classes became nearly strictly better as hybrids than playing the actual base class.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
Mechanically, the characters were entirely different (sorry [MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION]). They entirely went away from the AEDU framework where each character was designed the same with the same number of powers. They had an entirely different mechanical feel, and that lead to some play differences as well.

Now, they were numbers-compatible with the earlier characters - it was the same edition so they could co-exist with other characters and run the same adventures. I seem to remember that some may have dealt better or worse if you changed up the number of encounters per day a lot, but that was a lesser quibble.

The classes were streamlined.
No, they were not, they were actually less consistent in design and put in a redundant 'padded' format.
Some say that they were more like earlier editions to try to woo the players who were still playing 3.5 or switched to PF, and in some ways they were because they didn't follow AEDU.
And don't forget returning players from the fad years. OSR was taking off at the time. Thus the "Red Box" cover re-printing the fad-era one.

There's nothing about the AEDU system that necessitates each character to have the same number of each type of power at the same levels, that's just how 4e classes happened to be designed up until the PHB 3
Even in PHB 3, the resource numbers remained about on par, even if psionics used encounter power points to augment at-wills instead of getting separate encounter powers, it was a comparable 'Encounter' resource.

And that was the key difference. AEDU could have been ADU or AED or per Round/Minute/Day/Week or Attack/Defense/Social/Exploration. The important difference from prior eds wasn't adding 5 min short-rest recharges and formally breaking out 'Utilities.' It was giving all player characters rough parity in resources, regardless of desired character concept. About the same number of at-will, encounter, milestone, and daily resources (including surges as well as powers). About. There were variations: Defenders & primal classes got more hps/surges, controllers fewer. Wizards got extra at-will cantrips. Divine classes got an additional encounter in channel divinity, leaders in a surge-trigger of varying sorts. Etc. In spite of (and with the help of) those variations, a player could play the character he wanted, without having to accept the innate inferiority of a lower-Tier class. Wanting to play an innately-magical concept didn't force you in under the glass cieling of Tier 2 as a Sorcerer. Wanting to play a valiant warrior without any magical abilities didn't drop you into Tier 5. Or, to compare to the classic game, wanting to play a bookish mage didn't mean you'd have to be suicidally fragile and wait, throwing darts most rounds, until 3rd-5th level to become a regularly-contributing member of the party.

Essentials may have been a mistake, but it definitely wasn't back peddling from the original design goals of 4e.
Sure seemed like it. Where 4e delivered much better class balance (though still, certainly not perfect, and still favoring 'caster' types) than any other edition of D&D had before - or shows any sign of shooting for in the future - Essentials clearly back-peddled from that, gutting it's version of the martial classes and relentlessly powering up and expanding the wizard at every opportunity. Oh, and re-introducing broken magic items, and mass errata to 'bring X back into line with the classic game,' pretty indicative of very intentional backsliding.
Sure, it did other stuff that wasn't exactly backsliding - power inflation and feat bloat aren't exactly backsliding, for instance.

I actually purchased the essential books because I was told they would be good for casual games... maybe they were compared to core 4e (or even 3.x/PF), but since I have 5e now I can't picture myself using them for that...
Essentials, as a system, was not as good for casual gamers as 4e was, but the smaller-format RC was convenient to carry around, FWLTW.

The logic at the time was hard to follow. Some new players were confused by the numbering of PHs, thinking that maybe buying a PH2 would be as good as getting a PH1, or thinking they needed all three. So, to address that, instead of having a new offering with just one PH, they split the PH in half, put it in two books, neither of which sounded like a PH, and made the material redundant, then labeled buying said redundant material 'Essential.'

While I agree that pre-essentials 4e and post-essentials 4e are both great and best kept separate, I wouldn't necessarily label Essentials as the "basic" version of the more "hardcore" 4e. It was marketed that way, but that was one of the many mistakes that were made with Essentials.
Another of the odditites leading up to Essentials was the 'need' for a 'simple fighter,' even though the fighter remained the most popular class, regardless of what was done to it in each ed. At least, post-E, the game delivered on a 'simple caster,' the Elemental Sorcerer, as well.

I've heard a theory that Essentials was designed, intentionally, to fail. I wish it sounded more far-fetched.
 
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MwaO

Adventurer
I've heard a theory that Essentials was designed, intentionally, to fail. I wish it sounded more far-fetched.

Each of the initial class Essentials books included the same 160 pages or so of duplicate material. Looking like you're deliberately ripping people off while making it less convenient to game is the fastest way to fail.
 


Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
In spite of (and with the help of) those variations, a player could play the character he wanted, without having to accept the innate inferiority of a lower-Tier class. Wanting to play an innately-magical concept didn't force you in under the glass cieling of Tier 2 as a Sorcerer. Wanting to play a valiant warrior without any magical abilities didn't drop you into Tier 5.

I want to argue here, but I can't because I don't know 4e well enough.

The thing that bothers me about the "tiers" is that not everyone understand what they meant. They aren't about raw power, but rather utility and versatility. When looking at what tier a class should be in, they are compared on how well they would do in 3 separate scenarios (should explain them?), this was the formal definition. So it wasn't just about damage and battle performance, but a PC's' capacity to contribute in various situations and complex problems. The wizard, the ultimate swiss army knife, did very well in this kind of analysis.

So did 4e really remove this problem? Did the fighter really get so much more versatile than previously?
 

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