D&D 5E Balor vs Pit Fiend

Gadget

Adventurer
I seem to remember the Balor being more powerful than the Pit fiend in previous editions, not the reverse. Is that true?

That being said, I've often found the two monsters to be somewhat interchangeable in practice (Yes I know, Blood War, Lawful vs. Chaotic Evil, blah, blah, blah). Both of them seem to be different takes on a Balrog.
 

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I seem to remember the Balor being more powerful than the Pit fiend in previous editions, not the reverse. Is that true?

Not really. In 2nd edition, the Balor was arguably more powerful in a brawl, but the Pit Fiend had better strategic options (e.g. Teleport Without Error at will + nigh-unstoppable regen = win). Both of them were much more strategically powerful than the 5E versions though.
 

UnknownDyson

Explorer
Sure, on the surface. They are both fiends, fire and brimstone, and all that. But that is really it, its kind of like saying that a barbarian and a wizard are interchangebale because they are both human.
 

Celtavian

Dragon Lord
Also, in case you're curious, against two 9th level melee Champions with +1 swords and three 9th level archer Champions with +1 bows, the Pit Fiend wins approximately 90% of the matches, and the Balor wins approximately 0%. At best, the Balor can take down one or two PCs and then explode in a big ball of fire, maybe insta-killing another PC who is low on HP. That probably makes the Balor the right choice for a 9th level group for most players, unless your players really thrive on challenge.

Can you test my version of the Balor?

BALOR Huge fiend (demon), chaotic evil; Challenge 20 (25,000 XP)
Armor Class 19 (natural armor); Hit Points 393 (21d12 + 126 x1.5 PC); Speed 40ft., fly 80ft.
STR 26 (+8) DEX 15 (+2) CON 22 (+6) INT 20 (+5) WIS 16 (+3) CHA 22 (+6)
Saving Throws Str +14, Con +12, Wis +9, Cha +12
Skills: Athletics +14, Perception +9, Insight +9, Arcana +11, Religion +11
Damage Resistances cold, lightning; bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical weapons
Damage Immunities fire, poison; Condition Immunities poisoned
Senses truesight 120ft., passive Perception 19
Languages Abyssal, telepathy 120ft.
Death Throes. When the balor dies, it explodes, and each creature within 120 feet of it must make a DC 20 Dexterity saving throw, taking 70 (20d6) fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. The explosion ignites flammable objects in that area that aren't being worn or carried, and it destroys the balor's weapons.

Fire Aura. At the start of each of the balor's turns, each creature within 5 feet of it takes 10 (3d6) fire damage, and flammable objects in the aura that aren't being worn or carried ignite. A creature that touches the balor or hits it with a melee attack while within 5 feet of it takes 10 (3d6) fire damage.

Magic Resistance. The balor has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.

Magic Weapons. The balor's weapon attacks are magical. The balor’s weapon attacks score a critical hit on a 19-20.

Innate Spellcasting. The balor’s spellcasting ability is Intelligence (spell save DC 19). The balor can innately cast the following spells, requiring no material components:
At will: darkness, detect magic, dispel magic (5th level), telekinesis.
3/day: fire storm, greater teleport, dominate monster.
1/day each: divine word, power word stun, plane shift.

ACTIONS
Multiattack. The balor makes two attacks: one with its longsword and one with its whip.

Longsword. Melee Weapon Attack: + 14 to hit, reach 10ft., one target. Hit: 21 (3d8 + 8) slashing damage plus 13 (3d8) lightning damage. If the balor scores a critical hit, it rolls damage dice three times, instead of twice.

Whip. Melee Weapon Attack: +14 to hit, reach 30ft., one target. Hit: 15 (2d6 + 8) slashing damage plus 10 (3d6) fire damage, and the target must succeed on a DC 20 Strength saving throw or be pulled up to 25 feet toward the balor.

Teleport. The balor magically teleports, along with any equipment it is wearing or carrying, up to 120 feet to an unoccupied space it can see.

Fiery Charge. The balor can charge up to 80 feet using its fly speed. It makes a Shove Check using its +14 Strength (Athletics) skill against any target in its path. It gets advantage on this check against any target that is Large or smaller. Each target in its path is either knocked prone or shove backwards 5 feet out of its way. If the target is knocked prone, the balor can travel through its square without difficulty. Any creature in the path takes 2d10+8 bludgeoning damage and 3d6 fire damage. At the end of the charge, it can make a melee attack as a bonus action.

Hurl Fire and Lightning Bolt: Ranged Spell Attack: +11 attack. Range: 300 feet; each target in 5 foot wide line. Hit: 6d6+5 lightening damage and 6d6+5 fire damage. The target must make a DC 19 Dexterity save or catch on fire taking 3d6 fire damage at the start of their turn until they use their action to put the fire out requiring a DC 19 dexterity save.

Summon Demon (1/Day). The demon chooses what to summon and attempts a magical summoning. The balor has a 50% percent chance of summoning ld8 vrocks, ld6 hezrous, ld4 glabrezus, ld3 nalfeshnees, ld2 mariliths, or one goristro.
A summoned demon appears in an unoccupied space within 60 feet of its summoner, acts as an ally of its summoner, and it can't summon other demons. It remains until its summoner dismisses it as an action.

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...Out-of-the-Abyss-SPOILERS/page7#ixzz4Wpv6fBwn
 

@Celtavian, that version is more complicated (especially with spellcasting) than my simulator can currently handle. If I ignore the spells, the Fiery Charge, and the fiery aura, and just bump up the HP to 393 instead of 262, the outcome is unchanged: the five 9th level Champion PCs with magical weapons beat it.

However, if I just assume the Balor has cast Darkness beforehand and uses its Truesight, then everything flips. Together with the 393 HP, making the area dark (and ignoring the chance of losing concentration on Darkness, or having Darkness dispelled/etc., although these Champions can't cast Dispel Magic anyway of course), that makes the Balor win most of the time, barely.

Zentradi the Balor wins 88 out of 100 matches against Katie the Champion and Lux the Champion and John the Archer and Katie the Archer and Maid Marian the Archer, with 69.73 HP remaining (17% of total)


Obviously in actual play you'd play the Balor with much more sophistication and would take advantage of his high movement speed, his spells like Fire Storm, Dominate Monster, Power Word Stun, his Fiery Charge, etc. and you'd clean the 9th level party's clocks completely. It's hard for me to be more precise than that because, again, my simulator isn't sophisticated enough to handle spells right now. But the code that I do have is here: https://repl.it/EnFq/18 including the parts of the Balor stats (Truesight, darkness, 393 HP) that I mentioned above.

Code:
let balorCeltavian() = Combatant(nameOf ["Kolor"; "Koloss"; "Zentradi"; "Abnaxis"; "Gargamontor"] "Balor", (26, 15, 22, 20, 16, 22, 393), Prof = +6, SaveProficiencies=[Str;Wis;Con;Cha],
                        AC = 19, Resists = [Lightning; Cold; Weapon], Immunities = [Fire; Poison], Blindsight = true,
                        Traits = [MagicResistant],
                        Actions = [
                            Action.Create("Multiattack",
                                Attack [
                                    Attack.CreateDualType "slashes" 14 ([DieRoll.Create(3,8,8)], MagicalWeapon) ([DieRoll.Create(3,8)], Lightning)
                                    Attack.CreateDualType "whips" 14 ([DieRoll.Create(2,6,8)], MagicalWeapon) ([DieRoll.Create(3,6)], Fire)
                                ])
                        ])

BTW, I don't know what Greater Teleport is. Sounds like a 3E-ism.
 

CTurbo

Explorer
I wonder why they made the much smaller Pit Fiend both stronger and more durable than the Balor. I actually thought they were the same size for all these years.

Nevermind I see they are actually the same strength
 
Last edited:

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