Purposefully Overpowered Encounter - Umber Hulk

Trit One-Ear said:

Rethinking the use of the Umber Hulk after all the comments saying it'll be too easy a challenge for the party. I'm hoping to do very little tweaking to the monster I use as this is more an encounter for flavor and narrative than for a satisfying combat encounter.

Looking to use a higher level monster then perhaps. One that has higher defenses and higher average damage, so while he may not be a full challenge for a party of 5 heroes, the math will make him harder to hit and more deadly for a brief skirmish.

The Steel Gorgon is another iconic monster that would work well. As a lvl 15 elite, we're already talking about a harder fight. Glancing at defenses, we're looking at roughly a 15+ to hit, possibly more, and even if I started the Gorgon out bloodied (for narrative effect), they'd have to burn 151 hp to bring him down.

Damage-wise, this guy could easily bring down the party's ranger with 3 average damage hits, or bloody her in one max damage.
Even if the heroes beat him down, it should be pretty draining. I've been looking forward to an "oh sh*t" moment with them, as most encounters I've thrown at them have been either really well balanced, or a cake walk. Even if it's a grossly over-leveled monster, I'm happy with that kind of effect.

Trit

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If the party is at full resources, I say let them take it on while it's at full HP. If they're going to lose, have the hunting beasts arrive to save them. But they might surprise you. My 4 level 9 PCs took on a level 15 elite skirmisher in my last session (though they did disable it's method of retreating and hitting them), and it had some good defenses. Just start at full and see what happens!

Trit One-Ear said:

Looking to use a higher level monster then perhaps. One that has higher defenses and higher average damage, so while he may not be a full challenge for a party of 5 heroes, the math will make him harder to hit and more deadly for a brief skirmish.

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I would beware of higher defenses. This is one of the most challenging aspects of encounter/monster design and one of the main causes of pacing issues at any tier. I have become so aware of this issue that I purposely avoid using soldier type monsters, particularly higher level soldier types, in my games.

The issue is one of tight exciting pacing. You want the combat to feel and run as an exciting struggle, but consistently missing and doing minimal or no damage to the creature makes the combat drag and become boring. When the PCs spend their encounter and daily powers missing the target, the combat drags on. The PCs will at some point only have their at-will powers left which do less damage comparatively.

Therefore the combination of higher defenses as well as higher HP has a huge potential to become an unexciting grind.

My gut feel on this one is to use a monster that they can hit on average rolls but keep the HP entirely variable. In other words, wing it!!! Have the monster do a lot of damage (even using the terrain to do so) for those "Oh crap!" moments, but the monster dies at exactly the moment the pacing has hit its crescendo. It is an illusionist's trick behind the screen, but IMO it might provide a much more exciting, satisfying, and memorable encounter.

Good luck with the encounter.

Trit One-Ear said:

Rethinking the use of the Umber Hulk after all the comments saying it'll be too easy a challenge for the party. I'm hoping to do very little tweaking to the monster I use as this is more an encounter for flavor and narrative than for a satisfying combat encounter.

Looking to use a higher level monster then perhaps. One that has higher defenses and higher average damage, so while he may not be a full challenge for a party of 5 heroes, the math will make him harder to hit and more deadly for a brief skirmish.

The Steel Gorgon is another iconic monster that would work well. As a lvl 15 elite, we're already talking about a harder fight. Glancing at defenses, we're looking at roughly a 15+ to hit, possibly more, and even if I started the Gorgon out bloodied (for narrative effect), they'd have to burn 151 hp to bring him down.

Damage-wise, this guy could easily bring down the party's ranger with 3 average damage hits, or bloody her in one max damage.
Even if the heroes beat him down, it should be pretty draining. I've been looking forward to an "oh sh*t" moment with them, as most encounters I've thrown at them have been either really well balanced, or a cake walk. Even if it's a grossly over-leveled monster, I'm happy with that kind of effect.

Trit

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I'd be tempted to downlevel it a bit and use it at full strength. Maybe down level it to 12. That would make the hits a bit easier and shave about 40 hit points off the thing. It will be TOUGH, but quite doable.

I like the way you think, [MENTION=336]D'karr[/MENTION]. That being said, I'm probably going to leave the defenses where they are, and start it bloodied. The issue with combat dragging on, imo, is the high hp value.
By starting the Gorgon bloodied, it'll mean the players know that when they hit it, it's making a difference. When they miss (which will be a decent amount of time) my hope is they start to feel the pressure and fear.
Ultimately, if they win, as [MENTION=6668292]JamesonCourage[/MENTION] says they might (and in 4E I've learned to never underestimate the players), more power to them. If I'm about to manage a TPK, the hunting party can swoop in for a timely dramatic rescue.
But, as [MENTION=336]D'karr[/MENTION] suggests, I may fudge the numbers on the fly. Maybe reduce defenses by 2 and just keep him alive till I feel the players have sweat enough.

Trit

If you want to make players seriously sweat while playing 4E, I have found no better way to do it than to restrict their healing. The PCs in my game are now 23rd level. The players have never been so nervous as when, as Paragon characters, they faced Draconic Wraiths that had auras that prevented enemies spending healing surges. Maybe have a high (PC level +3/4) level elite monster with such a power (or in an environment that has a similar effect) and I bet you'll see them squirm.