[UPDATED] Looking At Savage Worlds Rifts

A few days ago a draft copy of the upcoming Rifts Savage Worlds Players Guide made its way into my inbox from Pinnacle Entertainment. As a fan of the Rifts game from Palladium Games, I have been following the development of this game with interest. After having a couple of days to read through the PDF, I can talk about some of my early impressions of Savage Rifts.


A few days ago a draft copy of the upcoming Rifts Savage Worlds Players Guide made its way into my inbox from Pinnacle Entertainment. As a fan of the Rifts game from Palladium Games, I have been following the development of this game with interest. After having a couple of days to read through the PDF, I can talk about some of my early impressions of Savage Rifts.

UPDATE: The Kickstarter has launched and funded in under a minute. Looks like a record contender!

Unfortunately, this is going to be an incomplete look at Savage Rifts as a whole, because I have not yet seen the Gamemaster’s Guide or the adventure book. I think that these two books will be important in showing whether or not Savage Rifts will fire on all cylinders or not. So far, I am impressed with what I have seen, but I will really need to see how the game handles D-Bees before I can make a complete decision.

I am a fan of Rifts, and of Palladium games in general. My entry into all things Palladium was via their underappreciated Ninjas and Superspies game, which to this day remains one of my favorite martial arts games. Class and level games are not typically my thing, but there is something about the way that Palladium games are structured that makes me enjoy them a lot more. I’m not sure what that is because, at its heart, the Palladium system is really a heavily houseruled version of AD&D with rules to handle things like super-powers and mecha bolted on to it.

Rifts gets a lot of grief for having a lot of “crunch” to it, but in play I have found that most of that crunch is front loaded into the character creation, and fades as play continues. Making a Rifts character is probably one of the more time consuming character creation processes in gaming, but once you get over that hill the “crunch” fades to a more medium level of detail that really isn’t that different from games like AD&D. Unlike games like those in the D&D family, a Palladium game shoves a lot more flavor into their classes, really connecting characters to the worlds in which they play. I think, for me, that is a big part of what makes a Palladium game so much more interesting.

When word started to leak that Pinnacle Entertainment had acquired a license to make a Savage Worlds version of Rifts, I admit that I thought two things. First, I thought that the world was about to end because Palladium was letting someone else redo their game without their system. Second, I thought that it couldn’t work because, despite a lot of people not liking the Palladium system, I felt that it was tied up with the settings with such a Gordian knot that one would not be able to work without the other.

The designers managed to find a way to bring the structure of Rifts’ O.C.C.s (that’s Occupational Character Classes) to Savage Worlds in a way that not only simulates the sometimes staggering power levels of a Rifts game, but at the same time does it in a way that feels like Savage Worlds. A lot of the times when someone converts a game setting from one ruleset to another they tend to kludge systems from one game into another, often in ways that don’t work. The designers of Savage Rifts managed to avoid this trap with package deals that they call Iconic Frameworks. These Frameworks are built around the concepts of Rifts classes like Glitter Boys, Bursters, Cyber Knights, Juicers and other unique Rifts character classes, but they are conceptualized in Savage Worlds terminology.
Savage Worlds rules concepts like power points are given the Rifts names of P.P.E. (Potential Psychic Energy) and I.S.P. (Inner Strength Points) in these rules, to better fit the Rifts experience. Mega-Damage and M.D.C. (Mega-Damage Capacity) are alive and well in Savage Rifts.

There is an added “let’s be part of a team” to Savage Rifts that I like. Rifts can be the ultimate in sandbox campaigns, because with the existence of the Rifts your games can literally go anywhere and do anything. My last Rifts campaign started on Atlantis, shifted to deep space and the Phase Worlds before ending up on contemporary (non-Rifts) Earth. With all of time, space and alternate dimensions at your command, settling on a cohesive group concept can be difficult. Savage Rifts helps that with the idea that characters are all a part of a group known as The Tomorrow Legion. With the post-Tolkeen Rifts Earth as the base setting, the Tomorrow Legion is organized by one of the important NPCs of Rifts Earth, the historian Erin Tarn, along with Lord Coake, founder of the Cyber Knights. These people are organizing the Tomorrow Legion against the villainy of the Coalition. For a long time, the Coalition was seen as a necessary evil in the harsh world of Rifts Earth, protecting humanity from D-Bees and demonic forces, but the destruction of the city of Tolkeen has made a lot of people realize that the Coalition isn’t as necessary as they thought, and this is where Savage Rifts branches off.

Most of what I just said may not make any bloody sense to those without some grounding in the Rifts setting, but that’s okay. You don’t need to have a creaking bookshelf filled with Rifts books to play Savage Rifts. You get a lot of the idea of the world and its background from the Savage Worlds Rifts Player’s Guide, and I would imagine that the Game Masters Guide will expand that information even more.

Another problem that many have had with Rifts is that of character “balance.” The amount of power creep in Rifts supplements is pretty steady, with later books introducing classes and monsters that could overwhelm a lot of the concepts from the core book. Savage Rifts attempts to put characters of varying power levels on a more even keel with what they call the Heroic Journey tables. These are a series of random tables that can be rolled upon to give characters perks and equipment, with the more powerful character concepts getting fewer rolls than the less. I think this is a great idea, and looks like it will provide a nice bit of power level balance between characters. The only real problem with the tables is that, with only six options per table, characters will start to look alike. If I were running a Savage Rifts game, one of the first things that I would probably do would be to blow out these table to ten or twelve options each. The Heroic Journey tables are broken out into topics like Education, Close Combat Weapons, Magic & Mysticism, Cybernetics and others. In the descriptions of each Framework it tells you how many Heroic Journey rolls you can make for a character, and on which of the tables.

Savage Rifts is going to be a solid game that gives you the experience of playing in one of the great settings of tabletop gaming, using the Savage Worlds rules as its foundation. One of the things that makes Rifts fun is that you can literally toss anything from any Palladium book into a Rifts campaign, and they will more or less fit into your campaign. Savage Worlds allows for the same sort of “blender” approach to campaign creation. Anything should fit into a Savage Rifts game with that same ease. Bring in villains from your Deadlands games. Characters from licensed settings like Lankhmar or Sixth Gun or the upcoming Flash Gordon can slide into Rifts Earth for a while, before heading back to their own worlds. Yes, you may have to rejigger a few things to make characters work in Savage Rifts, but that is part of the work of a GM for these sorts of campaigns.

For people who have wanted “Rifts but in a ‘modern’ ruleset,” Savage Rifts should fit that bill. Savage Rifts captures all of the excitement and adventure of the original Palladium version of Rifts while staying faithful to the Savage Worlds rules.
 

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The phrasing is signed to be insulting, but he's referring to the difference between a fairly simulationist rules-heavy system and a rules-light narrative system. It's a valid question.
Just as an idea, they could reconcile the Wild Card / mook dichotomy to mirror the MDC/SDC mechanics. Instead of keying the wound track to plot importance, it could reflect something that actually exists within the world. I'm not saying they will do it that way, necessarily, but it's a possibility.

And they could just excise bennies entirely, or make them optional in this setting. I think most of the other problems could be fixed with the right presentation.
 

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innerdude

Legend
The phrasing is signed to be insulting, but he's referring to the difference between a fairly simulationist rules-heavy system and a rules-light narrative system. It's a valid question.


A) Savage Worlds is far from being a "narrativist" system. If Savage Worlds is a "narrativist" system, so is every version of D&D. Savage Worlds is about 55% gamist, 35% simulationist, and 10% narrativist.

B) Savage Worlds is only rules-light relative to stuff like D&D 3e, 4e, and GURPS. On the "rules weight" continuum, it's pretty solidly dead center, maybe even just right of center, slightly behind BECMI and just ahead of stuff like Castles and Crusades.

C) If you understand what "bennies" are actually doing in terms of gameplay, they're basically the equivalent of action surge / healing pool / hit dice, only they're used in reverse to soak wounds, rather than represent slow depletion of hit points. If he doesn't like them, cool, but the claim that bennies are somehow a terrible affront to RPG design, and hit points are somehow vastly superior and more "realistic" is disingenuous at best.

D) Mooks are a "cinematic" way of representing the classic hero trope of mowing down rows of enemies at a time. So that's not to taste for [MENTION=6775031]Saelorn[/MENTION], I guess.

Apparently [MENTION=6775031]Saelorn[/MENTION] doesn't like Savage Worlds. **shrugs** He's entitled to that opinion. I don't know why it means he needs to take a giant threadcrap here, especially since if he's so tied to the original Rifts, it isn't going anywhere, and will remain in publication side by side for years to come thanks to Kevin Siembieda's singular vision of RPG design.

(The fact that Palladium Rifts is widely considered one of the worst RPG systems in existence in terms of functional gameplay and balance might also be an interesting topic to discuss, but is also likewise beyond the scope of this discussion.)

TL;DR: Go off and play whatever simulationist masterpiece floats your boat, [MENTION=6775031]Saelorn[/MENTION]. Nobody here is stopping you. Mind letting the rest of us enjoy a moment in the sun?
 

TL;DR: Go off and play whatever simulationist masterpiece floats your boat, [MENTION=6775031]Saelorn[/MENTION]. Nobody here is stopping you. Mind letting the rest of us enjoy a moment in the sun?
As you say, the Palladium Rifts rules are not terribly playable, or balanced at all. I maintain hope that Savage Rifts might be able to maintain the spirit of role-playing as presented by Rifts, while excising the horrible narrative baggage which otherwise plagues Savage Worlds.
 

A

amerigoV

Guest
As you say, the Palladium Rifts rules are not terribly playable, or balanced at all. I maintain hope that Savage Rifts might be able to maintain the spirit of role-playing as presented by Rifts, while excising the horrible narrative baggage which otherwise plagues Savage Worlds.

On your first hope, I have heard many from the playtests comment that they have captured the feel of Rifts (I personally cannot comment as I never played Rifts and I did not partake in a playtest).

On your second hope, although I am not associated with the Pinnacles I can guarantee that Bennies (given they are part of the KS) and Extras (not mooks) will not be going anywhere. But, if that baggage is too much for you, one of the options in the KS is a really cool Travel Bag!
 

innerdude

Legend
Just as an idea, they could reconcile the Wild Card / mook dichotomy to mirror the MDC/SDC mechanics. Instead of keying the wound track to plot importance, it could reflect something that actually exists within the world. I'm not saying they will do it that way, necessarily, but it's a possibility.

And they could just excise bennies entirely, or make them optional in this setting. I think most of the other problems could be fixed with the right presentation.

There's a really simple way to make it more "simulationist" if that's what you really want ----

# of wounds per character = 1/2 the character's Vigor die. In this variant, everyone except the lowly d4 vigor people have 3 or more wounds. However, to make up for the higher number of wounds per character, you probably need to adjust as well the threshold for beating someone's toughness to cause a wound. Maybe lower it from 4 to 3, or even 2. Don't diddle with the actual toughness rules, just make the threshold for causing a wound (instead of just shaken) lower. At that point you'd also need to houserule the wound penalties accordingly, but that's something that should be easy to suit to taste.

Then if you want to have an "exceptionally tough" foe, you simply adjust the "damage above toughness" wound threshold accordingly.

Likewise, if you want everyone more fragile, make # of wounds per character = 1/3 Vigor die, and keep the wound threshold the same, or possibly raise it to 5 if you want to give people a little more plot protection.

I'm not saying I think either is a good solution. I think both house rules play pretty strongly against Savage Worlds' rules-as-intended, and would make combat both dramatically slower and more deadly overall, but it's certainly an easy change.

I don't know what to tell you about bennies. Frankly, using bennies to "soak" wounds bothered me for the longest time, until it clicked with me that the soak mechanic is basically a "hit dice / healing surge" variant that in actuality allow for GREATER simulationist leanings than actual hit dice / healing surges. After that I never had a problem with them.

Sure, in actual use, they're totally a narrative device. What just happened? How did that hero narrowly avoid taking that deadly wound? Eh, who knows; make up the fiction to suit. However, what it DOES do in the aftermath is make everything else about actually SUFFERING a wound, and having to be healed from it, vastly more coherent and "simulationist" than anything D&D has managed to date in terms of hit points. How did you avoid that wound? Make it up.

But once you actually HAVE a wound, it's a wound. For me, the trade off of a "narrativist" mechanic in soaking wounds is absolutely worth it to have a more coherent injury / exhaustion mechanic post hoc.

YMMV.
 

Obryn

Hero
This Kickstarter is run strictly by Pinnacle Entertainment.

And it starts in one hour, friends.
By 'strictly run by,' is there any mechanism in your license/contract/whatever whereby Kevin Simbieda or Palladium could decide to delay the project for any reason? To change writing, art, whatever?

In other words, what are the odds that this could go all Robotech RPG Tactics on us?

I trust Pinnacle. I don't trust Palladium.
 

Matchstick

Adventurer
I sincerely doubt that we'll see any details from contracts.

In a post on the Pinnacle boards Jodi Black, the COO of Pinnacle, said "most importantly, the words for the books in this Kickstarter project have already been approved". I'm assuming that means that any approval process from Palladium has been successfully navigated. She was also pretty clear in saying "Those who back the Kickstarter will have their PDFs by June".

http://www.pegforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=48485&start=40

It's also worth noting that there's a new post on Palladium's website that's plenty enthusiastic. "The adaptation is a labor of love created by people who know Rifts® and care about its fans. Thank you Sean Patrick Fannon and Ross Watson – and congrats to Shane, Jodi, Aaron and everyone involved in this exciting project. I have enjoyed reading everything I have seen from Sean and Ross. They have been masterful at capturing and encapsulating Rifts® for people who have never played, while making it fun for us who know Rifts® inside and out. The color artwork throughout is pretty awesome, too. Seeing all of this has made me excited about Rifts®, and I created this world!"

http://www.palladiumbooks.com/index...nt&view=category&layout=blog&id=52&Itemid=183

I don't have any history with Palladium or Rifts, but I know there's history there, and I would be shocked if Pinnacle didn't know that as well, and thus worked very hard to find a contract that wouldn't hang them out to dry. Even so, looking at the news from both companies everything seems ducky.

P.S. I think I was subliminally maneuvered into using the word "ducky". :)
 

HardcoreDandDGirl

First Post
I am so excited, I just droped $100 on the GM kit hard covers...and I may just add all the minis...atleast the dog boys...

OMG... I literally danced I was so happy... and I have the biggest grin on my face right now...
 

HardcoreDandDGirl

First Post
As you say, the Palladium Rifts rules are not terribly playable, or balanced at all. I maintain hope that Savage Rifts might be able to maintain the spirit of role-playing as presented by Rifts, while excising the horrible narrative baggage which otherwise plagues Savage Worlds.

my group loves the setting but has had more then our fair share of disappointment with the rules... I hope this is a good mix tooo...so Saelorn lets cross our fingers
 


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