As is my tradition, each time a game ends, I try to learn from it. This time I'm looking at the Deadlands: Lost Colony with Savage Worlds Adventure Edition (SWADE) and our 6-session campaign experience with it.
About the Group
Player A: my wife, a power gamer who likes butt kicking and action-packed adventure. Her favorite systems are Pathfinder 2 and D&D 4E because of the tactical combat options and big damage potential.
Player B: our neighbor (who grew up with THAC0-era D&D), enjoyed our first foray into SWADE with “Holler” (but wanted a different theme and setting if we were to revisit the system).
Player C: my neighbor’s co-worker (who also grew up with the same era of D&D, but prefers more story-focused games)
Since forming as a group about three years ago, we played two 5e campaigns, short forays into 7e Gamma World (based on 4e), Savage Worlds Holler, an 8-month campaign in 4e D&D, a handful of 1-shots (Dread, Monster of the Week, Alice is Missing), and Dragonbane (playing the entire campaign in the boxed set).
My Experience with Savage Worlds
I first picked up Savage Worlds Explorer’s Edition as a $10 paperback at a GenCon decades ago. I was curious about using a generic system, but I had been burned on GURPS a couple years before that. After reading the Edges & Hindrances system and finding that the Target Number 4 rule was buried – and not presented very clearly – I decided I wasn’t interested and forgot about it. Years later, I was brought back out of a desire to play Rifts, and I bought a stack of Savage Worlds Deluxe paperbacks for player use.
Then SWADE was released, so I purchased the updated Rifts for that – every supplement and setting. And then I got Deadlands, Lost Colony, Pathfinder, Holler, and Solomon Kane. I really went all-in on this system – though in truth I was most interested in Rifts and Pathfinder. The company seemed like good folks, the boxed sets were full of interesting components (tokens, cards, dice, etc.), and I didn’t want to experience FOMO with my friends who were also collecting them.
But, honestly, the system never felt comfortable to me. (More on that later.)
The Selection of Deadlands: Lost Colony
After Dragonbane, Player A wanted to play something a little more power-gaming and tactical. Player C wanted to play something sci-fi to get away from all the fantasy gaming we’ve been doing. One of Player A's fondest gaming memories was a convention game of Savage Rifts in which she was a Glitter Boy with a massive exploding Boom Gun. Remembering how crunchy Rifts was (as a variant of SWADE) and how Player B especially struggled with the vanilla SWADE used in Holler, I suggested we try another version of Sci-Fi SWADE, and once we can master that, then we can switch over to Rifts.
I had Deadlands: Lost Colony. I was thinking of it as a space western, like Firefly, but maybe it could be run like a Guardians of the Galaxy with space pirates. This would be easier than Rifts, right?
They Never Understood It
Trying to explain advancements, which we did at the start of every session, never made sense. And that’s okay, eventually you can just tell them “take an Edge or level up two skills” (because, that’s close enough I guess.) But combat – my God – they never got it.
Me: Want to multi-fire, it’s -2 to the shot. You only roll one Wild Die per Shooting test. The maximum number of raises you can get on an attack roll is 1. You add damage dice together, but your Wild Die isn’t added to your trait rolls. You did 23 damage to the enemy – what’s your AP?
Player B: What does that mean?
Me: Armor Piercing on your weapon.
Player B: I don’t think I have any.
Me: Okay, so I subtract the enemy’s 9 Toughness and 14 points of damage still come through, so that means he is Shaken and suffers 3 Wounds.
Player B: That doesn’t sound right.
Me: Here, look at the White Board, I’m going to use dry erase markers and show my math for every attack roll in the game.
Player B: That still doesn’t look right. I’m more confused than when we started. We’ll just say you’re right and move on.
And this was every damage roll in the game. EVERY. SINGLE. ROLL. I was teaching simple – but multi-step – mathematical processes for every roll. Nothing breaks immersion like having to go to a darn whiteboard and teach math. That’s not how anybody wants to spend free time.
Fast, Furious, and Fun? Not in these parts!
I just explained how exhausting explaining the rolls were. Would it surprise you that we had 1.5 hour combats? It took as long as 4th edition D&D. While the math lessons did slow the game, we did make it through multiple rounds. The real reason the game was so slow is because Toughness was too high, Damage was too low, and nothing happened.
“I hit. Ok, I don’t get over the Toughness, so nothing happens.” That was the most common refrain during most battles. After all the dealing of cards, deciding actions, rolling attacks and computing successes by multiples of four, rolling damage and counting exploding dice/reducing by AP/deducting Toughness/dividing by 4/explaining the match on a whiteboard – having all of that end with “nothing happens?!!!” It’s an insult and a darn waste of time.
In other games, a simple die roll (modified by a bonus) can tell you whether you succeeded or failed. Then you move on with other players. Not in SWADE. NO! You have to count multiple dice, have some explode, then add AP, subtract Toughness, divide by 4, roll Soak checks to avoid damage, and probably more that I’m not thinking about.
How Bad Is This Savage Setting?
Well, it never got to be “fun” for one thing. With the mathematical interludes and sluggish combats, that instantly put a dampener on the fun elements.
For a sci-fi setting, we didn’t have fun alien species, space exploration, starship combat, powerful weapons and lasers. Basically, it was a bore of a setting. Weapons were too weak to reliably get past armor. There was exactly one alien species that wasn’t meant to be interacted with, a space worm, and a space horse.
External Circumstances
Under the weight of my real world issues in recent months, I doubt any game would have succeeded at the level I wanted. We had snowstorms that limited our ability to meet in-person, two family deaths, I started a challenging semester of my master’s program, I contracted COVID for the first time, I had a minor surgery, and had to say goodbye to my first dog (R.I.P. to my sweet Kay). Under these circumstances, I honestly felt good that I was able to run a game at all. Ending the campaign and getting a fresh start felt necessary.
What Next?
Well, I don’t expect I will ever run Savage Worlds again. I’m debating whether to box these up and put them in storage or offer them as trade-in to my local game store. I’m feeling maybe the later. I’ve collected so much over the years and it’s taking up a lot of space for a game that I don’t enjoy that much. And honestly, many people love Savage Worlds – and it just didn’t click for us. Even when I’ve been a player, I’ve run into other groups with similar issues as ours. Maybe I can get rid of the Deadlands and Lost Colony stuff and hang on to the Pathfinder and Rifts lines that interest me more.
I told the group I want to “go back home” to a system and genre I’m more familiar with. We debated OSR, Castles & Crusades, and a return to Dragonbane, but Player A felt she would be underpowered. We settled on the “happy medium” of 5E, but we’re proceeding with a few changes. For my end, I’ll be using resources from Level Up and MCDM to add some more options, better balance, and more dynamic play options. To break away from traditional fantasy to appeal to Player C, I’m interested in trying Eberron for the first time.
I have more hope about starting a 5E game than I’ve had in years. I last ran a 5E campaign back in August 2023, so maybe I will appreciate it more this time around.
About the Group
Player A: my wife, a power gamer who likes butt kicking and action-packed adventure. Her favorite systems are Pathfinder 2 and D&D 4E because of the tactical combat options and big damage potential.
Player B: our neighbor (who grew up with THAC0-era D&D), enjoyed our first foray into SWADE with “Holler” (but wanted a different theme and setting if we were to revisit the system).
Player C: my neighbor’s co-worker (who also grew up with the same era of D&D, but prefers more story-focused games)
Since forming as a group about three years ago, we played two 5e campaigns, short forays into 7e Gamma World (based on 4e), Savage Worlds Holler, an 8-month campaign in 4e D&D, a handful of 1-shots (Dread, Monster of the Week, Alice is Missing), and Dragonbane (playing the entire campaign in the boxed set).
My Experience with Savage Worlds
I first picked up Savage Worlds Explorer’s Edition as a $10 paperback at a GenCon decades ago. I was curious about using a generic system, but I had been burned on GURPS a couple years before that. After reading the Edges & Hindrances system and finding that the Target Number 4 rule was buried – and not presented very clearly – I decided I wasn’t interested and forgot about it. Years later, I was brought back out of a desire to play Rifts, and I bought a stack of Savage Worlds Deluxe paperbacks for player use.
Then SWADE was released, so I purchased the updated Rifts for that – every supplement and setting. And then I got Deadlands, Lost Colony, Pathfinder, Holler, and Solomon Kane. I really went all-in on this system – though in truth I was most interested in Rifts and Pathfinder. The company seemed like good folks, the boxed sets were full of interesting components (tokens, cards, dice, etc.), and I didn’t want to experience FOMO with my friends who were also collecting them.
But, honestly, the system never felt comfortable to me. (More on that later.)
The Selection of Deadlands: Lost Colony
After Dragonbane, Player A wanted to play something a little more power-gaming and tactical. Player C wanted to play something sci-fi to get away from all the fantasy gaming we’ve been doing. One of Player A's fondest gaming memories was a convention game of Savage Rifts in which she was a Glitter Boy with a massive exploding Boom Gun. Remembering how crunchy Rifts was (as a variant of SWADE) and how Player B especially struggled with the vanilla SWADE used in Holler, I suggested we try another version of Sci-Fi SWADE, and once we can master that, then we can switch over to Rifts.
I had Deadlands: Lost Colony. I was thinking of it as a space western, like Firefly, but maybe it could be run like a Guardians of the Galaxy with space pirates. This would be easier than Rifts, right?
They Never Understood It
Trying to explain advancements, which we did at the start of every session, never made sense. And that’s okay, eventually you can just tell them “take an Edge or level up two skills” (because, that’s close enough I guess.) But combat – my God – they never got it.
Me: Want to multi-fire, it’s -2 to the shot. You only roll one Wild Die per Shooting test. The maximum number of raises you can get on an attack roll is 1. You add damage dice together, but your Wild Die isn’t added to your trait rolls. You did 23 damage to the enemy – what’s your AP?
Player B: What does that mean?
Me: Armor Piercing on your weapon.
Player B: I don’t think I have any.
Me: Okay, so I subtract the enemy’s 9 Toughness and 14 points of damage still come through, so that means he is Shaken and suffers 3 Wounds.
Player B: That doesn’t sound right.
Me: Here, look at the White Board, I’m going to use dry erase markers and show my math for every attack roll in the game.
Player B: That still doesn’t look right. I’m more confused than when we started. We’ll just say you’re right and move on.
And this was every damage roll in the game. EVERY. SINGLE. ROLL. I was teaching simple – but multi-step – mathematical processes for every roll. Nothing breaks immersion like having to go to a darn whiteboard and teach math. That’s not how anybody wants to spend free time.
Fast, Furious, and Fun? Not in these parts!
I just explained how exhausting explaining the rolls were. Would it surprise you that we had 1.5 hour combats? It took as long as 4th edition D&D. While the math lessons did slow the game, we did make it through multiple rounds. The real reason the game was so slow is because Toughness was too high, Damage was too low, and nothing happened.
“I hit. Ok, I don’t get over the Toughness, so nothing happens.” That was the most common refrain during most battles. After all the dealing of cards, deciding actions, rolling attacks and computing successes by multiples of four, rolling damage and counting exploding dice/reducing by AP/deducting Toughness/dividing by 4/explaining the match on a whiteboard – having all of that end with “nothing happens?!!!” It’s an insult and a darn waste of time.
In other games, a simple die roll (modified by a bonus) can tell you whether you succeeded or failed. Then you move on with other players. Not in SWADE. NO! You have to count multiple dice, have some explode, then add AP, subtract Toughness, divide by 4, roll Soak checks to avoid damage, and probably more that I’m not thinking about.
How Bad Is This Savage Setting?
Well, it never got to be “fun” for one thing. With the mathematical interludes and sluggish combats, that instantly put a dampener on the fun elements.
For a sci-fi setting, we didn’t have fun alien species, space exploration, starship combat, powerful weapons and lasers. Basically, it was a bore of a setting. Weapons were too weak to reliably get past armor. There was exactly one alien species that wasn’t meant to be interacted with, a space worm, and a space horse.
External Circumstances
Under the weight of my real world issues in recent months, I doubt any game would have succeeded at the level I wanted. We had snowstorms that limited our ability to meet in-person, two family deaths, I started a challenging semester of my master’s program, I contracted COVID for the first time, I had a minor surgery, and had to say goodbye to my first dog (R.I.P. to my sweet Kay). Under these circumstances, I honestly felt good that I was able to run a game at all. Ending the campaign and getting a fresh start felt necessary.
What Next?
Well, I don’t expect I will ever run Savage Worlds again. I’m debating whether to box these up and put them in storage or offer them as trade-in to my local game store. I’m feeling maybe the later. I’ve collected so much over the years and it’s taking up a lot of space for a game that I don’t enjoy that much. And honestly, many people love Savage Worlds – and it just didn’t click for us. Even when I’ve been a player, I’ve run into other groups with similar issues as ours. Maybe I can get rid of the Deadlands and Lost Colony stuff and hang on to the Pathfinder and Rifts lines that interest me more.
I told the group I want to “go back home” to a system and genre I’m more familiar with. We debated OSR, Castles & Crusades, and a return to Dragonbane, but Player A felt she would be underpowered. We settled on the “happy medium” of 5E, but we’re proceeding with a few changes. For my end, I’ll be using resources from Level Up and MCDM to add some more options, better balance, and more dynamic play options. To break away from traditional fantasy to appeal to Player C, I’m interested in trying Eberron for the first time.
I have more hope about starting a 5E game than I’ve had in years. I last ran a 5E campaign back in August 2023, so maybe I will appreciate it more this time around.
