Licensed Role-Playing Games: Threat Or Menace?

Let's just get the controversial statement out of the way: I'm not a fan of licensed settings in role-playing games. Today's column is rolling out of a Skype conversation that I had with a friend the other day. There's a lot of cool RPGs out there that are based upon cool movies, comic books, novels and cartoons. None of them are bad, and I'm not trying to call out licensed games or anything, but this column is going to be an exploration of different tastes and approaches to gaming. I know, something that I never do.


Let's just get the controversial statement out of the way: I'm not a fan of licensed settings in role-playing games. Today's column is rolling out of a Skype conversation that I had with a friend the other day. There's a lot of cool RPGs out there that are based upon cool movies, comic books, novels and cartoons. None of them are bad, and I'm not trying to call out licensed games or anything, but this column is going to be an exploration of different tastes and approaches to gaming. I know, something that I never do.

Before we get too far into things, let me just say that the headline for this article is a joke. In 1980 something amazing happened to role-playing games: the first licensed RPG was published. Just in case you don't know, that was the Dallas role-playing game from SPI. Yes, the first ever licensed role-playing game was based on the television show Dallas. I'm sure that the people at SPI thought that it was an excellent idea, I mean millions of people were watching the show. Millions. I was one of the 83 million people who were watching the episode of Dallas where JR was shot. I'm sure if I had known about the Dallas game I would have given it a try, but I also watched the reboot of the show a couple of years ago so I am a glutton for punishment.

But this opened the doors to every other licensed RPG over the years. From Rocky And Bullwinkle to The Dresden Files and from Masters of the Universe to Doctor Who, every licensed game out on the market has been sown from the seeds strewn by the Dallas game. There have been some really great games to come from those seeds, and a few mediocre ones but that is the breaks. The D6 System from West End Games was brought to us because of a number of licensed role-playing games and became a game of its own based on the system's strengths.

Now that I have you past the jump I am going to admit that this piece isn't just going to be about licensed games. I'm going to talk a bit about games with strong settings to them as well, but first a confession. I have never played an RPG in any of the following settings:

  • Star Wars
  • Star Trek
  • Game of Thrones
  • The Dresden File
The reasons that I haven't played in any of those settings are different, because a couple of them are settings that I'm not a fan of and wouldn't play in because of that. No, I'm not going to say which ones I don't like. But, for a variety of reasons, these represent some of the reasons why I don't play in licensed games. One of the biggest reasons that I don't play them is because the cool stuff has already been done in the primary media (and, really, how many times do we need to blow up the Death Star anyway?) and I think that the strategy of playing around the edges of the setting doesn't have as much of an appeal.

When I do play in an established, licensed, setting I will play around the edges of things. I've run a Doctor Who game where the players were a timelost group of UNIT soldiers and researchers trying to find a way home again. For some reason early on the group decided that they had to avoid the Doctor (I don't remember the reason the players came up with, but it was a suggestion of the group) so they would bounce around in a few episodes of the show, and a couple of novels, while trying to not be noticed by the actual characters of the show.

I also extend this to a number of the "stronger" settings that have developed out of role-playing games, too. The Forgotten Realms. Glorantha. Warhammer 40K. Now, I've never played in The Forgotten Realms, but all three of those settings have one thing in common, they have taken on a size and life of their own. They have been developed through their games, and in a couple of case other media as well, until they have become as involved as many licensed settings. This weight can make them as difficult to use as licensed settings, because their development has lead to what can be an overwhelming amount of detail over the years. After "What do I do that the media's characters didn't already do?" the next mark against some settings can be that there is so much detail that it can be overwhelming. How do you deal with that? Sometimes you have to just focus into a tiny part of the setting and work from there.

As a GM I'll say that there are settings that scare the bejeezus out of me because of the amount of detail involved in them. I'm not one to commit myself to the amount of detail that you get from a lot of members of fandoms, which sometimes means that what I think is a good amount of setting knowledge ("Yeah, I've seen all of the Star Wars movies in the theaters.") ends up only being the tip of the iceberg. What I consider to be knowledgeable about the setting and what someone who has read a lot of novels and tie-ins and comics and watched a bunch of television shows considers to be knowledgeable tend to be different things. This can sometimes lead to friction within a group when there are two dramatically different sets of expectations that can clash with each other. Being open about what a campaign based on a pre-made setting will and won't contain is a good starting point for trying to alleviate those frictions. This is why a campaign pitch of "We're going to be playing in the Star Trek and/or Star Wars universe" isn't a good starting point. Both of those settings contain multitudes, and the aspects that appeal to one person about them might not appeal to another.

I've written before about one of my favorite games, which happens to be a licensed RPG. I've always been more of a fan of DC Comics than Marvel Comics, but the system from TSR's classic Marvel Super-Heroes Role-Playing Game always had more of an appeal to me than most of the DC Comics role-playing games that have happened (although I will always have a weak spot for the D6 version that West End Games put out). Luckily, TSR was really good about putting out support in the form of converting Marvel characters to the game, and giving you background on their stories. I have also usually worked around this by having the Marvel characters typically out of the way ("Yeah, the Fantastic Four is in another dimension, or something, and their helpline gave this number instead."), leaving the player characters to do things without being overwhelmed by the more famous heroes. In our college Marvel Super-Heroes campaign this ended up becoming a metacommentary as the player hero group started calling themselves "The World's Most Convenient Super-Heroes." Sometimes a work around can become a fun part of the game.

Not wanting to sound like I'm focusing on the negative here, I'll talk about a couple of games I like and their settings. Both of these I've talked about before: Stormbringer/Elric and Palladium's Rifts. I am not a huge fan of fantasy fiction, but the work of Michael Moorcock has been a favorite of mine since I started reading him as a kid. While the Elric books were my favorite when I was younger, they've been supplanted over time by his Jerry Cornelius and Dancers At The End of Time cycles. Both of these series are woefully underrepresented in role-playing games. Admittedly my intimate knowledge of the Elric stories are probably why I felt comfortable with games set in it. The main issue that comes up with playing a game in any of Moorcock's worlds comes from his periodic revising of his stories, or revisiting an earlier concept in a later book and casting it in a different way. Moorcock's multiverse from the early Elric stories and from the more recent Second Ether books like Fabulous Harbors are almost two entirely different settings. You get the extra challenge of "Which version of how the author addresses things do we use?" thrown into the mix.

I came to terms with my uncritical love for Palladium Games' series of Rifts games and setting books a long while ago. I'm not much of a fan of class and level systems, but I will drop everything for the chance to run a Palladium game. It doesn't make much sense to me either, at times. And I don't know if there are any settings that typify "OMG THERE IS SO MUCH GOING ON IN THIS SETTING I CAN'T EVEN" than with Rifts. I've played in a game where there was a player with a character who was a Rogue Scholar and another character was a centaur that was a ROM-like Spaceknight knock off. Both of which were made using official character classes for the game. It becomes a worked example of "this is the stuff we pay attention to and let the rest become background noise" approach to a setting.

So, despite starting this column by talking about how I don't like to play in licensed or "heavy" settings, I end by talking about two of the settings that fit the criteria for things that I shouldn't like and then talk about why I like them. Much like our real lives, our gaming lives are filled with contradictions and sometimes it is better to focus on those contradictions rather than the absolutes. I think in the long run it ends up making us all happier as people and gamers.
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But, that's not quite the issue. When you get these settings which have mountains of material, to go from "I know the name of this setting and maybe a couple of general points - Dark Sun is that setting in the desert with no gods right?" - to "I am comfortable enough with my knowledge of the setting that I can run something in this setting and do a good enough job" is a LOT of work. The larger the setting, the bigger the wall you have to climb before you get to the point of "good enough".

I have no problems running in settings. I'm currently running in Primeval Thule. But, that's the point. To become "good enough" in PT required me to read one book because, well, that's all there is for the setting. One setting book and a bloody gorgeous map.

I'm not against running in published settings. I'm just no interested when that setting has an Encyclopedia series attached to it.

Since it's about deciding you want to do this, what sort of setting are you willing and interested in committing to? Primeval Thule is a great example because it is indeed one book (well, there are lots of extra supplementary adventure books...) but all of the big settings have the "one big book" that, if written well, gives you all you need to figure it out without relying on lots of extra material.

Dark Sun (for 2E, anyway) was a great example....one boxed set gave you all you needed. The rest was just extra stuff to add to it. I never needed anything more than that.

I'll bet that the new Modiphius Star Trek RPG gives you 100% of what you need to play Star Trek without having watched a single movie or show.

There are settings where even a single book isn't gonna help. Tekumel in its many forms (Empire of the Petal Throne) has more setting, more depth, and more complexity than the entire Forgotten Realms, and is so dense and difficult to figure out that it can be a full time job to do so.

Games I've found fascinating and impenetrable include Eclipse Phase, Shadowrun and The Dark Eye. But for each of those I know someone who loves them and has mastered them.
 

Hussar

Legend
Thing is, [MENTION=10738]Doctor Futurity[/MENTION], what makes the setting? Say I run Greyhawk using only the old original boxed set. Nothing else. Now, I can certainly do this. Fair enough. But, my Greyhawk game would barely be recognizable to anyone who's kept up with the setting.

I'll give you an example. Recently played in a very excellent Dragonlance game. Tons of fun. Now, I freely admit that my DL knowledge pretty much ends about 1990. That's largely when I moved away from the books and the setting. I completely missed Saga, and the 3e additions. Now, the DM didn't. He loved the later stuff. And it did smack me in the face more than a few times.

Forgotten Realms? I mean if I were to use the old Grey Box Forgotten Realms, sure, it would be FR. Sort of. I mean, the gods would largely be different, most of the FR elements that we take for granted today wouldn't be there - no Drow (IIRC), no expanded setting, a hell of a lot less races, so on and so forth. And a whole lot of blank canvas for me to do my own thing.

For someone who is even slightly serious about Realmslore, my campaign wouldn't be Forgotten Realms at all. I'd basically be using some proper nouns and that's about it.

So, sorry, not interested. I'd rather just do it myself than hunt through the mountain of material in order to comfortably run the setting.
 

Thing is, [MENTION=10738]Doctor Futurity[/MENTION], what makes the setting? Say I run Greyhawk using only the old original boxed set. Nothing else. Now, I can certainly do this. Fair enough. But, my Greyhawk game would barely be recognizable to anyone who's kept up with the setting.

I'll give you an example. Recently played in a very excellent Dragonlance game. Tons of fun. Now, I freely admit that my DL knowledge pretty much ends about 1990. That's largely when I moved away from the books and the setting. I completely missed Saga, and the 3e additions. Now, the DM didn't. He loved the later stuff. And it did smack me in the face more than a few times.

Forgotten Realms? I mean if I were to use the old Grey Box Forgotten Realms, sure, it would be FR. Sort of. I mean, the gods would largely be different, most of the FR elements that we take for granted today wouldn't be there - no Drow (IIRC), no expanded setting, a hell of a lot less races, so on and so forth. And a whole lot of blank canvas for me to do my own thing.

For someone who is even slightly serious about Realmslore, my campaign wouldn't be Forgotten Realms at all. I'd basically be using some proper nouns and that's about it.

So, sorry, not interested. I'd rather just do it myself than hunt through the mountain of material in order to comfortably run the setting.

Hussar, I figured out why your posts bug me: you're taking a negative "can't do" approach and I keep asking you to look at the other side. We're talking about the same glass, but you see it as half empty and I see it as half full. Where I've gamed 36 years and never run into a Realmslore dude so "in to it" that he couldn't abide my much looser and less informed version of the Realms, you refuse to even consider the possibility of a setting on the rare chance such a guy might show up.

Again, I ask you: I know what setting intimidate you, worry you. You're very clear on that, and I understand that these settings appear to be insurmountable to you. But as a GM, surely you must have some setting of some sort that might appeal?

And, speaking as a guy who 95% of the time only works with my own homebrew settings....remember, those take the most work of all and have the least innate familiarity. So based on your last sentence, doing it yourself is, ultimately, the hardest path to take. Just saying. You don't seem to give yourself enough credit, man.


(EDIT: also, I'm still baffled that you think your version of FR would somehow not be correct. I hate to break it to you but....in the world fiction, and especially game settings....it's arguable that literally the only person out there who could lay claim to "doing it right" is Ed Greenwood himself (or Howard, or Lucas, or Tolkien, etc.; in fact by your standard here, the new Star Wars movies are not going to pass muster since they are not being made by George Lucas, ergo anything derived from them is not recognizably Star Wars; just proper nouns, if even that). And based on all I know, not even his own home game looks like the published beast we all know about. So you've created an insurmountable wall for yourself....but we're all down here at the bottom walking through these big convenient holes and getting it done just fine. This leaves me with one last question.....do you actually have some Crazy, Freaky FR Lore Dude who haunts your games? I'm starting to think so.)

Last comment, and then I'm done: I just can't take your argument seriously. Every case you state feels like moving the cheese another foot. Your original set Grey Box Forgotten Realms example: it's arguably to many the only boxed set you could get a coherent campaign out of that is closest to how the creator of that setting does it, for example. I owned that set, and it gives you plenty of information to set games in FR in that time period. A guy from the 4th or 5th edition era of that setting in terms of his lore can't invalidate what you are doing, because you're using an accurate boxed set from an earlier time period. Even if you told him that nothing after "year X" happened as it did later on....it's still Forgotten Realms. It really is. You are far too hung up on some strange specificity about how a setting or property should be represented, and I don't think you've really thought your own arguments through on this, especially since they sound so preposterous. My suspicion here is this has to do with something else entirely, either a personal dislike of settings like FR and others that accumulate such a large body of lore, or a dislike of some certain fans of these settings which left you with a bad taste in your mouth, or maybe you have a very, very narrow definition of what you consider "appropriate representation" of a property in fiction, one which is so specific that it prevents you from recognizing that your arguments are predicated on a narrow set of imaginary assumptions --such as: my using the original FR boxed set will not be seen as "FR" by someone with familiarity beyond that boxed set....which is just....fuuu I don't even know how to explain to you how weird and illogical that is. I give up.
 
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Hussar

Legend
Nothing weird or illogical to it.

Everyone comes to a table with expectations, yes? If you're running a Star Wars game, I'm probably pretty reasonable to expect Jedi and the Empire. Not a completely unreasonable assumption I wouldn't think. Now, if your game is 100% no Jedi, and is basically a cyberpunk heist game where the PC's are stealing stuff Shadowrun style, am I completely off base for thinking that this isn't really a Star Wars game? Even though it has Hutt's and name drops proper nouns and whatnot?

It's certainly not what I'd expect from a Star Wars game.

Now, if I sat down at an FR game, and suddenly Mystra is back, Bane never died, there was no Avatar trilogy, there's no drow at all, good, evil or in between. No underdark. No Undermountain. Heck, were the Dale lands even detailed in the Grey Box? I dunno. On and on and on. This is going to be really, really jarring to a player. Look, my familiarity with the Realms is pretty spotty. It's mostly from Baldur's Gate games and a few Dragon Magazine articles. So that Grey Box campaign might say Forgotten Realms on the cover, but, it's not the Realms that I have any familiarity with.

And, again, I simply am not interested in delving into a setting with that much background. Heck, I'm no different with my reading. I don't read much fantasy simply because door stopper books are not what I want. I think George RR Martin is a talentless hack who is in desperate need of an editor. I couldn't even get through more than one book and even then I was skipping chapters. World building bores me to tears. I simply, really, really could not care less about world building.

So a setting whose primary draw is world building is not what I want. I'm just not interested.
 

Jay Verkuilen

Grand Master of Artificial Flowers
This sorta blew my mind. Now I want to know how that went down!!!

It was quite a long time ago but I remember it working OK. It wasn't a campaign that had a lot of heavy play but we had some nice sessions. It was set in the Old Republic era and I went to the far edges. Two characters were Jedi, another as HK-47, the assassin droid, and the fourth a human scoundrel type. The Tower of the Elephant adventure involved some kind of really odd non-Jedi force user who had gone over to the Dark Side, whom I'd named Yara after the sorcerer in ToTE. The Jedi wanted to deal with him due to the fact that he was one of the crime lords of the city and a dark presence. The droid was along for the ride (with amusing quips and lots of blaster fire) and the scoundrel opened doors and such, I think he was there to steal from Yara.
 
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Jay Verkuilen

Grand Master of Artificial Flowers
Everyone comes to a table with expectations, yes? If you're running a Star Wars game, I'm probably pretty reasonable to expect Jedi and the Empire. Not a completely unreasonable assumption I wouldn't think. Now, if your game is 100% no Jedi, and is basically a cyberpunk heist game where the PC's are stealing stuff Shadowrun style, am I completely off base for thinking that this isn't really a Star Wars game? Even though it has Hutt's and name drops proper nouns and whatnot? It's certainly not what I'd expect from a Star Wars game.
One of my favorite SW things I ever played in had no Jedi and minimal Empire. It was set in the Corporate Sector. It had a strong SW feel to it though.... hard to describe exactly why but it did. So, no, I don't think either Jedi or the Empire is really particularly necessary.


Heck, I'm no different with my reading. I don't read much fantasy simply because door stopper books are not what I want. I think George RR Martin is a talentless hack who is in desperate need of an editor. I couldn't even get through more than one book and even then I was skipping chapters.
I'll certainly agree with that. Too many modern novels are bloated. 30 years ago all those side characters would have been edited out.
 


It was quite a long time ago but I remember it working OK. It wasn't a campaign that had a lot of heavy play but we had some nice sessions. It was set in the Old Republic era and I went to the far edges. Two characters were Jedi, another as HK-47, the assassin droid, and the fourth a human scoundrel type. The Tower of the Elephant adventure involved some kind of really odd non-Jedi force user who had gone over to the Dark Side, whom I'd named Yara after the sorcerer in ToTE. The Jedi wanted to deal with him due to the fact that he was one of the crime lords of the city and a dark presence. The droid was along for the ride (with amusing quips and lots of blaster fire) and the scoundrel opened doors and such, I think he was there to steal from Yara.

That sounds awesome.
 

Nothing weird or illogical to it.

Everyone comes to a table with expectations, yes? If you're running a Star Wars game, I'm probably pretty reasonable to expect Jedi and the Empire. Not a completely unreasonable assumption I wouldn't think. Now, if your game is 100% no Jedi, and is basically a cyberpunk heist game where the PC's are stealing stuff Shadowrun style, am I completely off base for thinking that this isn't really a Star Wars game? Even though it has Hutt's and name drops proper nouns and whatnot?

Sure, I agree....but no one made that argument. My argument was for a game that did involve the Star Wars tropes....just not emulating the movies, which was an argument you made early on as the only honest form of recognizing the IP.

It's certainly not what I'd expect from a Star Wars game.

Now, if I sat down at an FR game, and suddenly Mystra is back, Bane never died, there was no Avatar trilogy, there's no drow at all, good, evil or in between. No underdark. No Undermountain. Heck, were the Dale lands even detailed in the Grey Box? I dunno. On and on and on. This is going to be really, really jarring to a player. Look, my familiarity with the Realms is pretty spotty. It's mostly from Baldur's Gate games and a few Dragon Magazine articles. So that Grey Box campaign might say Forgotten Realms on the cover, but, it's not the Realms that I have any familiarity with.

Lack of familiarity with a setting in a given period is not the same as a representation of that setting being inaccurate. Likewise, to counter your example above, none of your example can work without having the Forgotten Realms' body of lore to draw from in the first place. Mystra, Bane, Undermountain and other pieces of the setting exist because of the Forgotten Realms, and interestingly can and do exist as part of the greater D&D cosmology at large. I've used Undermountain as a non-FR module, for example. It wasn't "FR" by any stretch, being in my own world, but it remained familiar to the players because it was part of "D&D" thematically. There are layers of familiarity here, and your example shows that you can use pieces of the whole without being a precise emulation. Now, if your goal is "precise emulation" then I think you will in fact be disappointed to find that this is actually impossible, and that no amount of familiarity with the setting can get you to that point. Arguably, the published FR we know isn't even accurate, as it is riddled with contradictions, continuity errors, and absolutely deviates dramatically from THE Forgotten Realms as run by Ed Greenwood.

And, again, I simply am not interested in delving into a setting with that much background. Heck, I'm no different with my reading. I don't read much fantasy simply because door stopper books are not what I want. I think George RR Martin is a talentless hack who is in desperate need of an editor. I couldn't even get through more than one book and even then I was skipping chapters. World building bores me to tears. I simply, really, really could not care less about world building.

So a setting whose primary draw is world building is not what I want. I'm just not interested.

The important question is: are you arguing this point for your own sake (in other words, do you recognize that this is a classic YMMV situation?) Or are you really trying to convince people like myself that your feeling about worlds and world building is correct when it comes to lore-heavy IPs? Just curious. To contrast (but not to fight about it) I love GRRM and his series and feel it is the only decent fantasy fiction I've read in the last twenty years.
 

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