D&D 5E So 5 Intelligence Huh

Maxperson · Feb 27, 2016

Hriston said:
No, you can play your character however you want. That's the point. Metagame considerations needn't be taken into account for proper roleplay. If I wish to play my Strength 3 character as someone who goes around trying to prove how strong he is by attempting to open stuck doors and lifting heavy objects, telling me I shouldn't or can't do that because of a score on my character sheet is asking me to use metagame knowledge when I decide what my character is trying to do. The truth is the rules of the game allow my Strength 3 character to lift any object that weighs up to 90 pounds without any chance of failure. Imposing restrictions on my character's ability to attempt Strength-based tasks goes beyond the RAW in a way that I feel detracts from the game.

It's probably a good thing nobody has argued that, then. The truth is that your PC with a 3 strength is weak. Period. Nobody has said he can't be roleplayed as someone weak, but who has heart. The problem is when the player roleplays the 3 as if it were a 10, 15 or even 20.

Yes, it is. Maybe you just don't know what metagaming means.

No. It's factually not metagaming. No out of character knowledge was used by the PC. None. Nil. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

pemerton · Feb 27, 2016

Warbringer said:
isnt the point of role playing to play within in the confines defind by the chararctet sheet?

I'm not [MENTION=6787503]Hriston[/MENTION], but I'll express a view on this.

It seems to me that the point of roleplaying is to play a character within the rules of the game. If the rules of the game permit a certain action declaration, then if I - playing my character - want to make that action declaration, I can. If they don't, then I can't. This is why, for instance, an AD&D fighter can't cast spells no matter how much his/her player (both in real life, and in character) might want to.

If the game rules permit the action declaration but penalise my character for making it (eg in AD&D if a newly dual-classed character declares an action using an ability of the old class, s/he forfeits XP), then - knowing that rule - I will take it into account (so, eg my MU-now-fighter will use spells only in extremis).

The rules for INT don't specify any particular action declarations that are prohibited to a character with 5 INT, do they?

Hriston · Feb 27, 2016

Warbringer said:
Ok two things

1) when you DM do your players now how much damage themy take? ( I played in a campaign where the DM just tell us know the "impact" and it was pretty fun)

Yes they do. This doesn't change that it's OOC metagame knowledge. Also, we aren't terribly concerned about avoiding metagaming. I agree that playing in a game where you don't know your character's HP would be fun. Never tried it though.

2) isnt the point of role playing to play within in the confines defind by the chararctet sheet? (Couple o great anedotes are playing with "Stoopid" the 3 int fighter (played by a Phd maths at college) and "one-word" the dwarves cleric - the player literally coveyed intention in "one word"... Another character in that party was "Cliche" the thief ... Yes the player talked in chiches )

Those sound like great RP choices, but no that doesn't mean other choice aren't equally as valid. The character sheet doesn't always tell the whole story and should be seen as a springboard rather than something confining.

TheCosmicKid · Feb 27, 2016

Hriston said:
If I wish to play my Strength 3 character as someone who goes around trying to prove how strong he is by attempting to open stuck doors and lifting heavy objects, telling me I shouldn't or can't do that because of a score on my character sheet is asking me to use metagame knowledge when I decide what my character is trying to do. The truth is the rules of the game allow my Strength 3 character to lift any object that weighs up to 90 pounds without any chance of failure. Imposing restrictions on my character's ability to attempt Strength-based tasks goes beyond the RAW in a way that I feel detracts from the game.

Nobody here is imposing, advocating, or even tentatively suggesting any restrictions on your character's ability to attempt Strength-based tasks. What a character wants and tries to do is part of their motivation, not their ability scores. A low-Int character could similarly go around trying to prove his or her intelligence, like Otto from A Fish Called Wanda. But Otto is still stupid. He's acting to the best of his very limited abilities, but they're still very limited abilities. He draws stupid conclusions from what he reads. He comes up with stupid plans. He does stupid things. What we're concerned about here is players using their intelligence and knowledge to draw conclusions, make plans, and do things on their character's behalf that are completely out of character. Otto thinks the London Underground is a political movement. Kevin Kline (or scriptwriter John Cleese, if you prefer) presumably knows it's not. Which information should Otto act on?

Maxperson · Feb 27, 2016

pemerton said:
I'm not [MENTION=6787503]Hriston[/MENTION], but I'll express a view on this.

It seems to me that the point of roleplaying is to play a character within the rules of the game. If the rules of the game permit a certain action declaration, then if I - playing my character - want to make that action declaration, I can. If they don't, then I can't. This is why, for instance, an AD&D fighter can't cast spells no matter how much his/her player (both in real life, and in character) might want to.

If the game rules permit the action declaration but penalise my character for making it (eg in AD&D if a newly dual-classed character declares an action using an ability of the old class, s/he forfeits XP), then - knowing that rule - I will take it into account (so, eg my MU-now-fighter will use spells only in extremis).

The rules for INT don't specify any particular action declarations that are prohibited to a character with 5 INT, do they?

The rules for INT specify that the ability to reason is controlled by INT. A low INT = a low ability to reason. It's up to the player to roleplay that limitation.

Warbringer · Feb 27, 2016

pemerton said:
I'm not [MENTION=6787503]Hriston[/MENTION], but I'll express a view on this.

It seems to me that the point of roleplaying is to play a character within the rules of the game. If the rules of the game permit a certain action declaration, then if I - playing my character - want to make that action declaration, I can. If they don't, then I can't. This is why, for instance, an AD&D fighter can't cast spells no matter how much his/her player (both in real life, and in character) might want to.

If the game rules permit the action declaration but penalise my character for making it (eg in AD&D if a newly dual-classed character declares an action using an ability of the old class, s/he forfeits XP), then - knowing that rule - I will take it into account (so, eg my MU-now-fighter will use spells only in extremis).

The rules for INT don't specify any particular action declarations that are prohibited to a character with 5 INT, do they?

The old relative scale used to be INT*10 = IQ, so yes, there is an implied implication.

In other systems, I'd take such a low score as a complication that the GM could create opportunities against. In D&D, especially point buy, what's the point in the stat if their are no in game complications, where in other stats i gain benefits from higher stats like Con, Dex, Str?

Warbringer · Feb 27, 2016

Hriston said:
Yes they do. This doesn't change that it's OOC metagame knowledge. Also, we aren't terribly concerned about avoiding metagaming. I agree that playing in a game where you don't know your character's HP would be fun. Never tried it though.

Those sound like great RP choices, but no that doesn't mean other choice aren't equally as valid. The character sheet doesn't always tell the whole story and should be seen as a springboard rather than something confining.

No, but if limitations are being taken to create benefits in other stat choices, shouldn't there be in game resource management?

That said, I prefer it when a player sees it as an opportunity to turn those constraints into characterizations

Warbringer · Feb 27, 2016

Maxperson said:
The rules for INT specify that the ability to reason is controlled by INT. A low INT = a low ability to reason. It's up to the player to roleplay that limitation.

I'd prefer a player do that; if they don't I'll encourage the behavior in game. Otherwise, let's sut remove INT, WIS, CHA - they're supposed to be bounds

Maxperson · Feb 27, 2016

Warbringer said:
I'd prefer a player do that; if they don't I'll encourage the behavior in game. Otherwise, let's sut remove INT, WIS, CHA - they're supposed to be bounds

Er, I said it was up to the player to roleplay the limitation

Totally agree with the rest of what you said. If you aren't going to roleplay the limits of your stats, there's no point in having numbers for them.

Warbringer · Feb 27, 2016

TheCosmicKid said:
Nobody here is imposing, advocating, or even tentatively suggesting any restrictions on your character's ability to attempt Strength-based tasks. What a character wants and tries to do is part of their motivation, not their ability scores. A low-Int character could similarly go around trying to prove his or her intelligence, like Otto from A Fish Called Wanda. But Otto is still stupid. He's acting to the best of his very limited abilities, but they're still very limited abilities. He draws stupid conclusions from what he reads. He comes up with stupid plans. He does stupid things. What we're concerned about here is players using their intelligence and knowledge to draw conclusions, make plans, and do things on their character's behalf that are completely out of character. Otto thinks the London Underground is a political movement. Kevin Kline (or scriptwriter John Cleese, if you prefer) presumably knows it's not. Which information should Otto act on?

Good demonstration

D&D 5E So 5 Intelligence Huh

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