[UPDATED] Out of the Abyss Reviews Have Started Rolling In

I just found one of the first reviews of Out of the Abyss. I thought it could be nice to keep all links to reviews in one thread, so here is the first I found: http://diehardgamefan.com/2015/09/04/tabletop-review-rage-of-demons-out-of-the-abyss-dungeons-dragons-fifth-editiondd-5e/ The previews have been okay, but this review is what has me stoked. This kind of adventure is right up my...


Barantor

Explorer
Honestly, I never read the 3e series so I declined to comment. But, as you say, they are assumed to be in Greyhawk.
Whether or not they make use heavy of the lore is another matter. The Tome of Horror and Temple of Elemental Evil were also officially in Greyhawk but could effortlessly be moved elsewhere.
The biggest examples of setting neutral products were likely Castle Ravenloft (which wasn't in a firm setting originally) and Red Hand of Doom, although the latter does assume Tiamat.

WotC seems uninterested in making adventurers that are that generic: a location devoid of lore and dungeons with no ongoing plot. PotA was as story lite as they want to get. Which I can understand: it's far easier to ignore story and just use the encounters/maps/locations to tell your own story than it is to run an book of encounters/maps/locations. The campaign structure really seems to be enabling people to play actual campaigns and get hooked on the game rather than just running a one-shot and forgetting the story.

I don't mind if there is lore and story associated with the adventure, but I dislike having to unwrap heavy story elements linked to another setting in an adventure. When the story has heroes that "everyone" is supposed to know mentioned in it, it feels rather forced to replace them with my own and much easier to just make my own adventure from scratch.

Campaigns are wonderful if you have a group that you know will play them out, but smaller adventures are great to let folks try the game out with no commitment to several adventures.

Some say that the adventure league is a way around this, but I find that smaller adventures are a good way to ease someone you know into it all. In a way I wish they would release the previous seasons of the adventure league adventures for use to the general public so that folks can use those. ... but that is way off topic.
 

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pukunui

Legend
Some say that the adventure league is a way around this, but I find that smaller adventures are a good way to ease someone you know into it all. In a way I wish they would release the previous seasons of the adventure league adventures for use to the general public so that folks can use those. ... but that is way off topic.
Seconded. There are some great little adventures in there.
 

I don't mind if there is lore and story associated with the adventure, but I dislike having to unwrap heavy story elements linked to another setting in an adventure. When the story has heroes that "everyone" is supposed to know mentioned in it, it feels rather forced to replace them with my own and much easier to just make my own adventure from scratch.
Which hero is that?

Campaigns are wonderful if you have a group that you know will play them out, but smaller adventures are great to let folks try the game out with no commitment to several adventures.

Some say that the adventure league is a way around this, but I find that smaller adventures are a good way to ease someone you know into it all.
If you're introducing people to the game and just want them to try it out, that's pretty much *exactly* what the Starter Set was designed to do.

Apart from that... Well, the thing is, WotC doesn't want people to just try adventures with no commitment. If people play a short adventure they quickly reach the end. And that leads to a "Well, that was fun. Goodbye everyone" moment. If you play a campaign, even just planning on showing off people the start, then there's the incentive to keep playing. It's easy to keep playing. If they don't like it, then the fact they're walking out on the story doesn't matter. If they're curious enough to keep playing and the story isn't over, that keeps them coming back! Which moves people from playing D&D as a one-time game night thing to regular players.
It's a Scheherazade situation. If you keep ending on a cliffhanger, people will keep listening to the story night after night.

In a way I wish they would release the previous seasons of the adventure league adventures for use to the general public so that folks can use those. ... but that is way off topic.
Seconded. There are some great little adventures in there.
I imagine in a few years, once they get a nice backlog of adventures, they'll start retiring adventures and making them public. But that'll be a few years. But, really, if you're super interested in those adventures it doesn't take much searching to find a password.
 

pukunui

Legend
Apart from that... Well, the thing is, WotC doesn't want people to just try adventures with no commitment. If people play a short adventure they quickly reach the end. And that leads to a "Well, that was fun. Goodbye everyone" moment. If you play a campaign, even just planning on showing off people the start, then there's the incentive to keep playing. It's easy to keep playing. If they don't like it, then the fact they're walking out on the story doesn't matter. If they're curious enough to keep playing and the story isn't over, that keeps them coming back! Which moves people from playing D&D as a one-time game night thing to regular players.
It's a Scheherazade situation. If you keep ending on a cliffhanger, people will keep listening to the story night after night.
I hadn't really thought about it like that. That's a really good way of putting it. Thanks!

I imagine in a few years, once they get a nice backlog of adventures, they'll start retiring adventures and making them public. But that'll be a few years. But, really, if you're super interested in those adventures it doesn't take much searching to find a password.
Indeed.
 

Aurick

First Post
First time DM here:

I just finished fully reading through Out of the Abyss and am really excited to run it for my players this week. After having played Hoard of the Dragon Queen, Rise of Tiamat, and Princes of the Apocalypse, my first impression is that this is a much better campaign than the 5e campaigns that came before it.

There is a ton of information, but seems to be fairly well organized. Each major stop has it's own specific section and there is one big "catch all" chapter that covers content that can take place during general Underdark traveling from place to place. This really cuts down on cross-referencing and as a first time DM, I'm not really worried that I'll miss out or forget to mention something that was briefly tossed into an obscure chapter in some corner of the book, which is something my DM complained about frequently while running PotA.

Out of the Abyss is a challenging campaign that will not lend itself well to players attempting to murderhobo everything they come across. This, I suspect, will encourage players to really think through the ways they maneuver various scenarios and promote good roleplaying. This is may discourage players who approach D&D as a combat simulator, as many times that strategy will simply not work. That being said, there is still plenty of combat to be had and there are opportunities for DMs to leverage a soft learning curve as players adapt to their situation. Character death is an ever-present threat but the campaign encourages DMs to present alternate scenarios with everything from characters being re-captured, strange places in the Underdark that allow character resurrection (with draw backs) or even having the bad guys resurrect killed players to interrogate them, setting up potential rescue missions. In light of these things, players should learn that leading with combat to every challenge is no bueno.

I definitely see the inspiration drawn from Alice in Wonderland as well. The Underdark is a crazy strange place, and this campaign brings plenty of delightful surprises to uncover. In fact, my biggest concern in running OotA is that there is SO MANY amazing things that players can uncover, that I'm somewhat nervous that they miss out on some of the coolest stuff. This book is stuffed full of content, and almost all of it contributes to great roleplaying experiences.

Mechanically speaking, I do have some concerns on how to handle the near-army's worth of NPCs that the characters will recruit to their cause throughout the game. You can't simply ignore them without great cost. Many of the NPCs play into some of the best gaming hooks throughout the campaign, however, I'm not keen on the idea of incorporating them into initiative order once combat starts. Even if you dole out the various NPCs for players to control, the idea of combat dragging out because each player has 1-3+ NPCs under their command on top of their character just screams of frustration and a terrible experience in my inexperienced opinion. Maybe their actions can be handwaved during combat, explained by saying that the NPCs are also in combat against other challengers not necessarily on the board, but I have a slight suspicion that with the challenges the players are facing, they may need the extra help. This is where my lack of experience is really working against me as a DM. I simply don't know and will probably have to adjust throughout the campaign in light of how it plays out.

That minor concern aside, Im still convinced that this is 5e's best campaign yet with a really fun pay-off in the end. I'm also excited to see how Madness will end up impacting the game and it's ever-changing intrusions on character interactions as the campaign progresses. Though I can definitely see how OotA is a daunting campaign for any first time DM, I also see it as a worthwhile challenge and possibly one of the most exciting times to hop into a DM's chair during 5e's brief history.
 

Uchawi

First Post
The key to any adventure, or story for that matter is quality and entertainment value. Whether it is short or long won't offer much weight if the experience is mediocre.
 

TarionzCousin

Second Most Angelic Devil Ever
First time DM here:
I like your attitude.

Regarding the PCs' NPC allies, are they expected to stick around for long stretches of the campaign? Could they go away/stay home after their hook is dealt with?

I don't have the book yet.

One trick I've used is to have all the NPC allies go last during initiative. Don't expect them to fight well enough to matter. They can run around and help PC's, drag wounded out of the fray, or just hide. If an NPC ally is an obvious fighter, have him/her tie up one of the monsters during the fight. You wouldn't make any rolls for their combat, just say "They're fighting each other tooth and claw," every round.
 

Skywalker

Adventurer
Worth buying? NZ dollar has gone down so it is goign to be stupidly expensive compared to 5E launch ($20 more roughly). Once postage is added even on Amazon I will likely be paying the $50 if not closer to $60 for it which is $100 over here.

You should purchase it from Book Depository and get free shipping. I got mine for NZ$67.
 


Grimjack99

First Post
OotA is more than a little good, close to great. A best effort so far? Yes, and it presents an amazing world that the DM can expand on. It would have been better as a box set. I agree that there are some slight organizational issues, and all of their offerings have required DM modifications. That in itself is the nature of the prepackaged AP/module beast. The most important thing that this shows is that WotC is trying to produce material that gamers will enjoy. While I do miss the box sets of old, and the slim modules released alone, or in series; the nature of the market is AP's for WotC now. That's not to say it'll be their focus forever I hope. Once more into the Abyss, dear friends, once more.
 
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