D&D 5E Magic Missile and Death Saving Throws

C

clearstream

(He, Him)

• Jan 3, 2019

• #1

This came up in last night's session, and conclusions from RAW seemed... interesting...

A Mage cast Magic Missile - using a 4th level slot - at a character with about 10 HP remaining. Damage from four missiles was enough to knock that character to dying. Our first question was: do the remaining two missiles inflict death saving throw failures? I ruled "no" because all magic missiles hit simultaneously, and at the moment they hit the character had positive HP remaining. Therefore the RAW that "If you take any damage while you have 0 hit points, you suffer a death saving throw failure" was not triggered.

That made me reflect on the possible deadliness of Magic Missile cast at a character already on 0 HP. Even though the missiles hit simultaneously, they deliver damage separately (see Sage Advice on the interaction with Concentration). Therefore a standard cast of the spell can immediately kill a character who has fallen to 0 HP. That seems quite vicious, and well worth remembering for evil mages who want to go that extra mile.

Notwithstanding the RAW, would you rule the same way? or use this?

 

log in or register to remove this ad

CapnZapp

Legend

• Jan 3, 2019

• #2

Yes, Magic Missile is akin to many Kobolds running up and giving you one whack each.

Death saving throws give you some buffer against death, but once you're down you can die very quickly when facing many attackers.

And Magic Missile consists of many separate attacks.

 

Older Beholder

Hero

• Jan 3, 2019

• #3

I'd do the same as you in regards to dropping a player to 0
The other thing that comes up is mm vs concentration, 3 missiles = 3 seperate checks?

 

mortwatcher

Explorer

• Jan 3, 2019

• #4

If you want to go by the sage advice and would demand separate concentration check for each missile, then I would rule the same for death saves and would rule if 3 of 5 missiles are enough to bring character to 0, then the excessive 2 would incur death saves.

 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog

• Jan 3, 2019

• #5

If magic middle hits 3 times then hex applies as well to all 3

 

R

Ristamar

Adventurer

• Jan 3, 2019

• #6

FrogReaver said:

If magic middle hits 3 times then hex applies as well to all 3

Click to expand...

MM isn't an attack in the context of Hex, so no extra damage.

As for the Death Saves via MM, given the "official" reinterpretation from 2016, it seems likely that each missile that hits after the target is at 0hp would generate a failed save.

 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog

• Jan 3, 2019

• #7

Ristamar said:

MM isn't an attack in the context of Hex, so no extra damage.

As for the Death Saves via MM, given the "official" reinterpretation from 2016, it seems likely that each missile that hits after the target is at 0hp would generate a failed save.

Click to expand...

Maybe I’m mistaken but I thought magic missle was just an attack that always hits.

 

R

Ristamar

Adventurer

• Jan 3, 2019

• #8

FrogReaver said:

Maybe I’m mistaken but I thought magic missle was just an attack that always hits.

Click to expand...

Crawford's been pretty explicit and consistent that something that is an attack will have an attack roll. I haven't seen any exceptions mentioned thus far in any of his tweets as it pertains to Hex.

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/10/11/is-magic-missile-an-attack-that-hits-without-an-attack-roll/

EDIT: I suppose shove/grapple is a special melee attack without an attack roll, but they don't technically score a "hit" since it's an ability check.

 

Last edited: Jan 3, 2019

C

clearstream

(He, Him)

• Jan 3, 2019

• #9

mortwatcher said:

If you want to go by the sage advice and would demand separate concentration check for each missile, then I would rule the same for death saves and would rule if 3 of 5 missiles are enough to bring character to 0, then the excessive 2 would incur death saves.

Click to expand...

Also @Ristamar. At first I felt the same way. The reason I came to believe that RAW entails otherwise is the wording "If you take any damage while you have 0 hit points, you suffer a death saving throw failure." It is clear that the missiles hit simultaneously, so if I ask the question "How many missiles caused damage while the character had 0 hit points remaining?" The answer is "None! The missiles all hit simultaneously, while the character had positive hit points remaining."

For a cast of the spell whose missiles hit a character simultaneously at a time when that character is already at 0 hit points, the situation is different. The missiles still hit simultaneously, still deal damage separately, but now they satisfy the RAW "while you have 0 hit points".

Taken together, those accurately satisfy both the RAW and the related Sage Advice. A hesitation is that it might seem more intuitive to treat the missiles as dealing damage one at a time... which has been clarified as not being the case: they're separate but simultaneous.

 

Last edited: Jan 3, 2019

iserith

Magic Wordsmith

• Jan 3, 2019

• #10

[MENTION=71699]clearstream[/MENTION] I think your ruling was fair and supported by the rules you quoted. It seems unlikely that the intention is magic missile is a spell NPCs or monsters use to snuff out dying PCs, especially as it wouldn't work the other way unless the DM is using the dying rules on NPCs or monsters.