What Are These D&D 5E Notes In Monte Cook Games' Numenera Shipments?

jayoungr said:

There are pictures in the first post--are they not visible in your interface for some reason?

They're all monster conversion notes, like listing CRs and such.

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Thanks, I swear they were not there when I read it the first time... I'm getting old!

jayoungr said:

I don't think I've actually played Numenera; what specifically are you worried about losing?

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Namely, GM-less rolling; GM Intrusions (and its tie-in mechanics); its utterly ridiculous ease for creating foes and DCs as a GM; its front-loaded and player-sided task resolution system; the character creation structure; and the fact that it is not yet another 5e-based game.

Aldarc said:

Namely, GM-less rolling; GM Intrusions (and its tie-in mechanics); its utterly ridiculous ease for creating foes and DCs as a GM; its front-loaded and player-sided task resolution system; the character creation structure; and the fact that it is not yet another 5e-based game.

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I think much of that could be kept if they're willing to overhaul the rules to the extent that Adventures in Middle-Earth did. It looks like they're going with a standard-style bestiary, though.

Alternatively, maybe it's just going to be a setting book with monsters, something like one of the Plane Shift documents, but book-length?

jayoungr said:

I think much of that could be kept if they're willing to overhaul the rules to the extent that Adventures in Middle-Earth did. It looks like they're going with a standard-style bestiary, though.

Alternatively, maybe it's just going to be a setting book with monsters, something like one of the Plane Shift documents, but book-length?

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I'm not sure. I'm skeptical. But I don't have much choice other than to wait and see where this is going.

Aldarc said:

Namely, GM-less rolling; GM Intrusions (and its tie-in mechanics); its utterly ridiculous ease for creating foes and DCs as a GM; its front-loaded and player-sided task resolution system; the character creation structure; and the fact that it is not yet another 5e-based game.

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Well, presuming that Monte doesn't decide to abandon the Cypher system in favor of 5e (which seems very, very unlikely), I don't think you'll be losing anything. It just opens up the setting for folks who wouldn't otherwise play it. People who like Cypher definitely won't switch. And, actually, people that get exposed to Numenara through the 5e version might be inspired to try Cypher.

Seems like a win-win?

AD

lkj said:

Well, presuming that Monte doesn't decide to abandon the Cypher system in favor of 5e (which seems very, very unlikely), I don't think you'll be losing anything. It just opens up the setting for folks who wouldn't otherwise play it. People who like Cypher definitely won't switch. And, actually, people that get exposed to Numenara through the 5e version might be inspired to try Cypher.

Seems like a win-win?

AD

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Maybe, but I'm not convinced that 5e would be an appropriate fit for Numenera. Just because 5e is exceptionally popular does not somehow make it exceptionally suitable. I don't think that 5e D&D would even be in my top 10 systems that I would have naturally considered for a Numenera conversion. For example, most fan conversions I have encountered for Numenera to other systems generally favor classless systems (e.g., Savage Worlds, Fate, Cortex, etc.). I doubt, however, that my opinion in this matter would gain too much traction on this heavily 5e-leaning forum.

Aldarc said:

Maybe, but I'm not convinced that 5e would be an appropriate fit for Numenera. Just because 5e is exceptionally popular does not somehow make it exceptionally suitable. I don't think that 5e D&D would even be in my top 10 systems that I would have naturally considered for a Numenera conversion. For example, most fan conversions I have encountered for Numenera to other systems generally favor classless systems (e.g., Savage Worlds, Fate, Cortex, etc.). I doubt, however, that my opinion in this matter would gain too much traction on this heavily 5e-leaning forum.

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Oh, I don't know whether the Numenera is well suited for 5e. Perhaps not. I'm just saying that Cypher system fans don't lose anything by there being a 5e version, and that if that 5e version is done in a compelling enough fashion, it might even bring people over to Cypher. At any rate, Monte generally seems to know what he's doing. And he seems very independent minded. It doesn't seem like he'd produce something crappy. It just might play a lot differently. As others have mentioned though, you could make very similar arguments for The One Ring game, and generally that was well received.

AD

Doctor Futurity said:

The more interesting notion here is that Numenera comes out with a 5th edition adaptation that then weds 5E with the really cool innovations in Numenera, including cyphers, GM intrusions and other concepts that make Numenera distinct in play. Count me in!

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... what are cyphers and GM intrusions?

jayoungr said:

I would have said the same about The One Ring, but Adventures in Middle Earth keeps its feel pretty well. The key is that they didn't just roll with the straight D&D 5E rules; they rewrote large parts of them. The classes are almost completely different, for example. A hypothetical Numenera conversion could do the same.

I don't think I've actually played Numenera; what specifically are you worried about losing?

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As ha been stated a couple of times since this post, the GM intrusions, GM diceless (all rolls are made by players), ease of encounter building, ease of creature creation, the stat pools, effort.

In regards to AiMe. I am a GM of that version of D&D as a setting. I have found AiMe works best if you limit character advancement to just a narrow band of levels (1-10, with 5-7 being the sweet spot). Trying to get D&D players to understand that AiMe is not about character advancement from a level perspective but advancement as characters is difficult. AiMe is a story telling setting, not a high-adventure setting, and D&D really is catering for high-adventure (IMHO)

Ancalagon said:

... what are cyphers and GM intrusions?

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In Numenera the cyphers are bits of lost technology, one-use items which players can find and use. In Cypher System the concept extends to any set of impermanent items; a piece of relic tech in Numenera might reskin as a potion in a fantasy game or a temporary gadget in a SF setting. They can be omitted or modified as needed (see the feathers of Vurt for an example), but the idea behind cyphers is that they are items of power that players can both find and use without worrying about hoarding.....and they let the GM steer powerful but temporary effects to PCs without worrying about overall game balance.

GM Intrusions are a mechanic where the GM pays XP to a player, who then shares it with another, in exchange for an intrusive event. These events are flexible in that you can use them to reveal information for a cost, challenge the player, or make life more complicated. The player in turn can choose to refuse the XP, pay an XP to hand it back, and avoid his fate. Most players (ime) like to see what happens with GMIs, however. GMIs in Numenera/Cypher tie in to fumble and crit rolls, too....and the newest edition adds a Player Intrusion mechanic as well, although I haven't tried it out yet.

I've found the GMI adds the following elements in play: it's an easy way to hand out XP awards with a catch; it encourages the GM to think of interesting ways to make events for the the character more interesting or complicated, but it also means the player has some agency in the process. It reframes how and why complicated things happen, and encourages the GM to come up with situational scenarios that play off of the player's actions in the game in a way that lends more weight to their choices....even while being paid XP to accept those complications.

An example: a player is searching a hall for traps, and the GM knows that the traps are probably a level 3 difficulty to detect, so the player rolls and beats the target number (9 or better).but then the GM pays the players two XP and explains he may have found the trap the hard way and realizes he stepped on a pressure plate...if he lets his foot up then the trap goes off. The player can refuse the XP and pay 1 XP to say, "I got lucky and didn't put full pressure on the plate before spotting it" or he can accept the XP, hand one off to another player (maybe his buddy who will help figure out how to help him get off the pressure plate), and accept the intrusion.

Right now in most games including D&D 5E there's no mechanic like this.