D&D 5E Campaign Help Please (Rules, Advice, Suggestions)

I am going to be a new DM in the near future. I am currently working on a Lycan VS Vampire campaign (I know it is over done). I have worked out most of the campaign. It will have 3 parts: Part 1 will be my players getting infected, dealing with/ accepting the curse, and finally fighting against a faction of Lycan/Vampire Hunters (based vaugely on the Anime Hellsing). Part 2 will be based on the group accidently releasing Dracula from the control of the Hellsing family (when defeating the Hunters in Part 1), and they will have to navigate through a small Labyrinth to reach the front gates of Dracula's Castle. They then have to defeat 4 levels of the castle. The gate, the courtyard, the 1st floor of the castle, and the top floor. If the group triggers a trap entering the top floor then they will fall into a dungeon and have to find their way out and back to the top floor to fight Dracula. Part 3 begins with the group having just seen Dracula take on a gaseous form and escape death. They head north and find the primary Lycan stronghold (thus far a mysterious character has been guiding their path). The king of the stronghold informs them that Dracula has emassed an army and is headed for them. He charges the group with defeating the vast army that approaches. Now along with this there will be a bounty board, a quest board, several shops, a temple for the moon goddess, and several elder Lycans. One of which is the mysterious figure that has been guiding them this whole time. The shops here are going to have the ability to sale homes, keeps, castles, large castles, motes, etc etc.... and this is where I begin to have some future questions arise. After the final battle of Part 3, some of the players will have castles and other fortifications. So I want to offer an optional 4th Part. The 4th part would be that only one of them can be the Alpha of the pack. They all have there own fortifications, or for those who dont they can jump in with someone that does, or form a rouge party etc etc... Here is the problem, they are all inheriently Lawfully Good. With them being Lawfully Good and all having varying fortifications and strengths, what would be the best way to initiate and play this Campaign Segment? Also is this even doable with the rules and mechanics of the game? Lastly, I want to implement it so that the Mysterious figure that has been leading them around is now playable as my DM character. Is any of this possible or am I chasing pipe dreams?

Hiya!

First, congats on taking up the reigns of DM....it's not something many folk do well nowadays.

Second, and this is the disheartening part, I think you have much to much of a "railroad story" going on. You have a story. You have a beginning, a middle, and an end. This is great for a novel or movie...but not so much for an RPG adventure. Someone wiser than me once said, No DM-laid plan survives the first encounter with the PC's, or something like that. For example, what if, in stead of "accepting and coming to terms" with them being infected...they focus on curing themselves? They are LG after all...they are HIGHLY unlikely to just roll over and accept their new evil-lords as "the good guys". I can see them fleeing the area to seek out cures. Or, I can even see characters who are *really* concerned about their condition actually offing themselves. A truly Lawful and Good person would rather die than risk himself/herself killing an entire family of eight, for example.

The releasing of Dracula is one of those pivoting points. Players are a crafty bunch (sometimes annoyingly so!). What if one of them figures out what's going on and actively prevents him from being released? Or, if they fail, what if someone comes up with some oddball plan that would actually 'capture' him? The Dice Gods are fickle...and if you say "Ok, fine...roll a 20"...and then he does roll a 20. What then? You can't just say "No. forget it. I take that back. He gets away". Because if you do, your players will then do everything in their power to "wreck" your story line; from their perspective, it's only fair...you 'wrecked' theirs by going back on what you said. And, after all, it *is* supposed to be their story, is it not?

The castles/keeps thing is one of those things that changes the entire dynamic of the campaign. PC's go from worrying about which inn serves the best ale, vs the one that has the most comfortable beds....and start worrying about the growing peasant complaints about sewage in the streets due to lack of rains, and if the grain growers guild is going to want to sell more of it's product "out-of-state" to get a better price?

Lastly, don't do the "now the mysterious figure is my DM character!". Trust me. Just. Don't. Do it! If there one thing that is universally hated by all players I've ever come across (and thats 34+ years of actual gaming), it's the "Mary Sue" DM pet character. Especially one that has been (effectively) "immune to plot developments" for the last multiple game sessions. Just keep him as a regular old NPC. Oh, and I *highly* suggest that he not be portrayed as "the terribly mysterious shadow figure that has been leading you around, 'helping' you"...players hate that even more. If they ever find out that "all their choices" weren't actually their choices, or that all the "things that happened to us" happened because "The Sphinx", who is terribly mysterious, has been pulling strings behind the scenes to make them happen...well, lets just say your campaign will not end pretty.

Suggestion: DON'T focus on the PC's. Yeah, I know it sounds backwards, and there are many DM's who will disagree with me, but by focusing on the PC's, you are actually depriving the players of the freedom to play their characters they way they want. In your story, and that's what it is, you make all these assumptions that the PC's will do this, accept that, behave in this way or that, then choose option #38. If you write stuff in, or play it out, in order to make all these "plot points" happen, it will become obvious to your players early on... and then it's not a RPG. Now it's barely a choose your own adventure. Closer to a made-for-TV movie script that the players "get" to read through and say the lines.

Sorry to be so harsh there...but grand story lines never play out the way the writer of the adventure had intended. Why do you think many of the earlier Basic D&D and 1e AD&D adventures are so well-loved? Because they had the foundation of the story going on 'in the background', but it was up to the players to create the actual story. Minor story sub-plots did go on in the background, to support the overall "story", but no plot/story "lines" were really there or so integral to the adventure. For example, Keep on the Borderlands; no "plot line", but the story was basically "Here's an out of the way keep that has been plagued by raids from humanoids for a while". That's it. What humanoids? Up to the players and DM to discover. How long? Up to the DM. Why? Up to the DM. How do the PC's stop it? Up to the players and DM. So the actual "story" that takes place in, around and during that adventure is almost entirely created by the players as they play, and the DM as the players start to get excited about certain things (e.g., if they really start to see the lizard men in the swamp as the ones behind it all...the DM can run with it and focus on that).

Good luck no matter what you do! DM'ing is, IMHO, the best, and I prefer it to playing 9/10 times. I just like to freedom to create and show to my friends...and watch them explore what I created. Nothing like it, really.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

Newlight501 said:

The 4th part would be that only one of them can be the Alpha of the pack. They all have there own fortifications, or for those who dont they can jump in with someone that does, or form a rouge party etc etc... Here is the problem, they are all inheriently Lawfully Good. With them being Lawfully Good and all having varying fortifications and strengths, what would be the best way to initiate and play this Campaign Segment? Also is this even doable with the rules and mechanics of the game? Lastly, I want to implement it so that the Mysterious figure that has been leading them around is now playable as my DM character. Is any of this possible or am I chasing pipe dreams?

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pming pretty much said what I would. Except...

Why are the PCs lawful-good? Do they know this, and agree with it? Don't lean too heavily on alignment. It just causes problems.

Is this doable? Yes! It's your game, so do what you want. Just make sure that your players have a good time with it.

Top secret: every NPC is a DM character. Don't take ownership of just one, or you might afford it some unfair DM advantages. I know that I've enjoyed making some NPCs in the past, and wished them well...but story is more important than your desire to enjoy a character.

1. Welcome to ENworld!

2. Have some start-up XP.

3. Everything Paul said. Your story is a story, sounds very railroady, and makes massive assumptions about player buy-in and decisions -or effectively takes all decisions away from them. You sound very excited about DMing, and that's great...but it sounds like your excitement is for your story that you have all worked out already in your head...and that's not really DMing. Certainly not when you have a group of players there, at the table in front of you, who are presumably there to make their own choices and deal with situations as they/their character's abilities will let them...not because you, the DM, decided for them what/how things will go.

3a. And, just to reiterate what @pming says above, forget about your mysterious shadowy leading DMPC figure. Just forget it. Don't use it as an NPC. Don't use it in your plot. Do not let the PCs have a single glimpse of some "shadowy mysterious figure leading them around." If they can't make their own choices and go their own directions within your world, then they will resent you for it and, eventually, just stop playing. It can never end well. If you want to play, then roll up a PC, play, and let someone else DM.

[EDIT to add "4. For future posting reference,...paragraphs. " ]

There really isn't anything I can say to improve on what pming already said. Assuming you take that advice, your ideas are still usable but treat them as setting rather than story. Let the players discover the dangers around them and decide whether to confront them or run away. Be ready for them to run away - you've got some serious bad guys that the players may decide are beyond them. If they run, the evil they left behind can spread and make the world they live in less pleasant. Eventually they are likely to decide they are ready to go back and face the vampires.

As the DM you create a world with dangerous situations and opportunities for fame, fortune, and adventure. The players choose which opportunities they follow. However, there does need to be some agreement between DM and players that if the players go entirely outside what you have planned they have to understand you'll be winging while you adjust to their new direction.

I like throwing in world events, stories talked about in the taverns and news heard from town criers. I have a general idea of what sort of adventure those news stories could lead to but I won't flesh them out unless one catches the imagination of the players. That gives them options for picking their own path but staying close enough to what I have prepared that the game can keep moving. As you get your campaign setting fleshed out with NPC's and political interactions, those news stories will pop into your head at all times of the day. Have a notebook handy to write down the ideas.

Okay, first off I guess I should address the alignment situation. I have it set so that the characters are LG because Werebears which are derived from Brown Bears that have a LG alignment. Wearbears only infect another being with the curse of Lycanthropy if the balance of good and evil is to far off or if there are to few werebears left in the world.

Second, I am aware that my explanation was very linear and railroadish. It was just a quick snap shot because if I attempted to write the whole thing I wouldn't have the time or space lol. I have several options built in to my campaign. There are multiple paths, traps, and features that are all dependent upon what the players choose. In some instances the characters will even be split up and have to navigate a labyrinth to find one another again if they choose certain things.

Third, I understand what you mean with the mysterious character, but I fear you misunderstood what I meant. He and a few of his group are going to be the ones who infect the group during a skirmish with vampires (this will happen during the groups first quest while they are resting for the night). So then as the group advances, he will pop in and say things to guide them on their path to master their lycanthropy. For instance each full moon he comes in and keeps them safe and guides them, then the next morning on a DC 15 save each member gets a chance to remember what happened the night before.

Fourth. Now as for playing him as DMPC I do see how that could anger the players. Preference for my PC and what not. It is a bummer but I completely agree after hearing it.

Hopefully this helps you all better understand where I am coming from.

It will work if your players are willing to go along with it. If you force a scenario on players that aren't interested in what you're trying to do, they may sabotage your campaign by making choices that don't go in the direction you want them to go in. That's always a danger when a DM attempts to design a scenario as linear as you want yours to be. I would ask the players if they enjoy the type of campaign you plan to run. DMs should always inform the players of the type of adventure they intend to run allowing them to create appropriate backgrounds and create characters that fit the flavor of the campaign. It also allows the DM to determine if he should go forward with the adventure or find something else to run. If you don't have buy in from the players, you'll lose their interest early and often. They may even have reservations about you DMing in the future.

D&D adventures are a cooperative fiction. It requires a willingness by the DM and the players to make the adventure a success. You should always talk it over before going forward. You don't have to tell them all the details. You should be able to give them enough information to know if it sounds interesting. You might ask them, "Do you want to play vampires in a horror campaign? Something like the anime Hellsing?" If they seem interested, you go forward. If they tell you it doesn't interest them, you may have to go back to the drawing board. Regardless you should always feel out your players before going forward with an adventure.

Newlight501 said:

Okay, first off I guess I should address the alignment situation. I have it set so that the characters are LG because Werebears which are derived from Brown Bears that have a LG alignment. Wearbears only infect another being with the curse of Lycanthropy if the balance of good and evil is to far off or if there are to few werebears left in the world.

Second, I am aware that my explanation was very linear and railroadish. It was just a quick snap shot because if I attempted to write the whole thing I wouldn't have the time or space lol. I have several options built in to my campaign. There are multiple paths, traps, and features that are all dependent upon what the players choose. In some instances the characters will even be split up and have to navigate a labyrinth to find one another again if they choose certain things.

Third, I understand what you mean with the mysterious character, but I fear you misunderstood what I meant. He and a few of his group are going to be the ones who infect the group during a skirmish with vampires (this will happen during the groups first quest while they are resting for the night). So then as the group advances, he will pop in and say things to guide them on their path to master their lycanthropy. For instance each full moon he comes in and keeps them safe and guides them, then the next morning on a DC 15 save each member gets a chance to remember what happened the night before.

Fourth. Now as for playing him as DMPC I do see how that could anger the players. Preference for my PC and what not. It is a bummer but I completely agree after hearing it.

Hopefully this helps you all better understand where I am coming from.

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Welcome to ENWorld!

Since you're new at DMing, the best piece of general advice I can give you is this: let go. Seriously. It will help, I promise.

When you're the DM, it's natural to have a perfectionist bent; I know I do, even (especially?) after playing for 15 years. You'll put a lot of work into DMing, and naturally you'll want it to go well. In truth, being a good DM is all about knowing when to let go of your plans and just let the players tell the story they want to tell.

Personally, most of the time that I spend "perfecting" my game is spent before the campaign starts. I don't play D&D with people I've never met at least once before and whom I don't think can play well with others. I always make the characters with the player, and level it with them too; I do this so that I can have a good conversation with the individual player about the idea they have, and so that I can help make the character fit the campaign and the campaign fit the character. I usually run published adventures, because then I can devote my energy to setting up and running the game, rather than writing for it.

[MENTION=58401]doctorhook[/MENTION] Thank you for the advice.

Hiya!

Me again. Please don't hate me...I really am trying to help!

Newlight501 said:

Okay, first off I guess I should address the alignment situation. I have it set so that the characters are LG because Werebears which are derived from Brown Bears that have a LG alignment. Wearbears only infect another being with the curse of Lycanthropy if the balance of good and evil is to far off or if there are to few werebears left in the world.

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Ok. That's better....when you said "lycan" I instantly though "Chaotic Evil Werewolves". So, now that I know where the LG and what were-creature you're going for...

Maybe make it an 'option' to begin with. A LG creature wouldn't force their "condition" on anyone. Perhaps have the werebear come to the aid of the PC's as they are fighting the vampires. After the battle, he can appologise for following them around...but he has a feeling that they may be just the people to help him and [the town/person/group] defeat the evil vampires. He can offer them help, advice, and, if they want, he can infect them with lycanthrope; they would become werebears like him...great for fighting vampires! If they refuse, he understands and says that he will help them if he can, but he must continue his search for "true heroes willing to sacrifice for the greater good" (a bit of a shaming, but not too much). He can say the offer stands, and gives them info on how to reach him.

This way, it is fully the players choice, and the players will/should realize that becoming werebears would be very useful...but it's still their choice. Certain things will be tougher, that's for sure...but then again, any vampire with half a brain will have sprigs of wolvesbane around.

Second, I am aware that my explanation was very linear and railroadish. It was just a quick snap shot because if I attempted to write the whole thing I wouldn't have the time or space lol. I have several options built in to my campaign. There are multiple paths, traps, and features that are all dependent upon what the players choose. In some instances the characters will even be split up and have to navigate a labyrinth to find one another again if they choose certain things.

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Giving the players the "illusion of choice" is very hard to do... giving them "choices to progress" is easy. It sounds like you are going for the latter. Have you ever played those choose your own adventure books? Like the Warlock of Firetop Mountain, or the Deathtrap Dungeon ones? In it, they use the "choices to progress" method; "Do you choose (A), to take the spooky trail through the swamp, or (B) walk into the decrepit village of the damned, or (C) do you take the high-cliff pass?" The thing was, however, that no matter which you choose you always end up at the entrance to the "Tower of Death".

What we are talking about is trying to do the "illusion of choice" way. Using this method you have several "things" going on at the same time in the game. Whichever one the PC's choose is the one that progresses their story, but the other ones affect it....how, and how much is dependent upon what choice they made. For example, the werebear thing... if they choose to accept his offer, then the raid on the town by some ghouls sent by the vampire masters can be easily thwarted...but the townsfolk are wary of them now, now that they are "cursed creatures of the night". However, if they decline and decide to keep their humanity, they have a harder time fighting the ghouls (even when their werebear buddy shows up half way through to help)... but the townsfolk are far more grateful, and help the party with some info, maybe an old timer in town gives them a partial map of the castle because he worked on it when it was being built, and maybe the local herbalist gives them free garlic ("Even if you're working with that poor, cursed woodsman, Alphonso...I'd keep an eye on him if I were you...").

The thing is...the players made the choice, and the ghoul attack was "scripted", but the illusion that their choice mattered is sustained; the outcome of that choice (to be infected or not) had an actual consequence in how the scripted "encounter" played out.

Third, I understand what you mean with the mysterious character, but I fear you misunderstood what I meant. He and a few of his group are going to be the ones who infect the group during a skirmish with vampires (this will happen during the groups first quest while they are resting for the night). So then as the group advances, he will pop in and say things to guide them on their path to master their lycanthropy. For instance each full moon he comes in and keeps them safe and guides them, then the next morning on a DC 15 save each member gets a chance to remember what happened the night before.

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I'm sorry to say, but players won't likely see it this way. The *moment* the PC's figure out that he and his group "infected" them without their choice one way or the other....it's game over for them ever developing any kind of "empathy" towards him/them. As I said...if you give them the choice to be affected with it, then they made the choice. Now they will happily accept his mentoring. But if it was done against their will? Forget about it.

Fourth. Now as for playing him as DMPC I do see how that could anger the players. Preference for my PC and what not. It is a bummer but I completely agree after hearing it.

Hopefully this helps you all better understand where I am coming from.

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Yeah, DMPC's almost always rub players the wrong way. Straight up NPC's, fine...but anything more than that and players will see any "good thing" that happens to said DMPC as the DM "cheating/fudging" for his character... even if it's completely untrue.

As others have said, if you want to DM, be a DM. It's hard in the beginning to "let go of your desires" and just let the story unfold naturally. I can't tell you how many times I've started to run some encounter only to have the players do something nutty and completely change the direction of the story. As I said earlier.... players are a crafty bunch...even when they aren't even trying to be! But I guess that's one of the cool things about DM'ing, for me at least. Expecting the PC's to use some sort of guerrilla tactics against a hill giant steading, only to have them go back to the hills where they routed the small encampment of gnolls and wargs, and "hire the remaining survivors" to help them with a full-frontal assault of the fort. *shrug* Didn't see that coming....but sure made for an interesting story!

^_^

Paul L. Ming