dave2008
Legend
OK, so the story I was familiar with and that [MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION] described came from a later supplement / adventure?
Nentir Vale Coming to Dungeons and Dragons
OK, so the story I was familiar with and that [MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION] described came from a later supplement / adventure?
dave2008
Legend
True, I was much more interested in the Dawn War mythology than the Nentir Vale itself (thought I liked that too). However, Mearl's approach is not one I like as it does away with much of this mythology. It really isn't a "Dawn War" if the war is between primordials (or demons in his version) and humans. It is just a war a long time ago. Indeed, what I like about the Dawn War was how it resembled the mythology of a lot of earthly religions/ myths without directly copying them. It felt more natural to me. Mike's version does away with this. It is an interesting idea, but it really isn't the "Dawn War" setting. It may be set in the Nentir Vale, but it is not in the "Dawn War" setting as he is proposing to do away with that.
Jester David
Hero
They didn't change much from the original module, but added a lot of details that did not previously exist. However, those details had also been added and built upon in the setting books and novels. Curse of Strahd just did the exact opposite the setting did, pretty much going on as if the setting never existed and they were expanding on the adventure for the first time.
But... then they went and pulled a bunch of names and details from the novels and settings. Such as Leo Dilisnya. The Morninglord. The towns of Krezk and Vallaki. Rudolph Van Richten.
So they did a bunch of research and included a bunch of references to the campaign setting, while also ignoring lore from the exact same sources. They basically kept whatever they liked and threw out anything and everything they didn't like.
It was a little like a Marvel Cinematic Universe adaptation of a classic comic story.
Jester David
Hero
I'm also a fan of the Dawn War and the story of Primordials vs Gods. It has a neat mythological feel. Very "Greek gods vs Titans", which I imagine was the intent.
Although, random trivia, it was actually created for the Realms. As part of the Realms reboot along with the new cosmology. Both of those were meant to be FR lore. Ditto the Nentir Vale, which was going to be placed in a small section of the Forgotten Realms, which was planned as the default setting. At the last second they changed things, and pretty much just swapped out the proper names on the map. And then did some minor work to make the new setting, which was mostly a list of new gods.
dave2008
Legend
As a designer myself I would disagree with that statement. IMO, it would be more accurate to say that during the creation process it was, at some point, thought to be a part of the Realms. However, when it was finished and finally "created" it was not part of the Realms, but its own setting.
EDIT: That that it really matters of course!
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Parmandur
Book-Friend
Ultimate Ravenloft? To be fair, that's also what they do with the Forgotten Realms now. Nothing wrong with creative repurposing.
Based on the intro to CoS, and the interviews at the time, Hickman hates the "tragic hero" angle on vampires in general: he wanted Strahd to be a bad, bad man from of old.
I know what you mean. I sort of liked the Nordic take on the origin story (Primordials versus Gods ~ Giants versus Gods). That said, I also really relate to the kind of changes Mike is making to the setting. Not the specific changes. I mean, I like that take too-- mortals that became gods through a struggle with cosmic beings and that, as a result, are more involved in mortal affairs than your usual pantheon. That's cool. But more what I mean is that it's exactly the kind of thing I do to an existing setting when I'm doing my own campaign. I'll come up with a great story idea and then morph the backstory of the setting to enhance my campaign story. For example, in one long running campaign, I ended up almost completely re-writing the history and cosmology of the Forgotten Realms as we went along.
So, as an example of a DM doing his thing, I see where Mike is going. He probably had some nifty idea for his campaign story and ran with it. It means that his game will probably be more fun to watch because as a DM he's really invested in the game.
I'm just rambling here. I don't know how I feel about what that means for future prospects of the setting. If he runs some awesome campaign that results in this amazing cosmology, and people are clamoring for a fully fleshed out version . . . well, I suppose that means that the original Nentir Vale will get swallowed. But if it's that successful, that would still be kind of awesome? But I think it's more likely that it's just one more streaming game that some people like and doesn't have much impact on the Nentir Vale's prospects for publication.
AD
Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Yeah, I know what you mean. Even if I don’t personally love Mearls’s changes to the setting, they’re very much in the spirit of D&D - DMs taking settings they like and making them their own. When he was just tweeting snippets of his home game now and then, I didn’t mind so much. I didn’t like his changes, but hey, my own homebrew setting (which started out as Nentir Vale and evolved from there) is a much greater departure than his take. And I liked seeing his approach to updating the setting, even if I didn’t agree with all of his choices - I totally stop his format for 1-2 page exploration sheets for my own games. Making it a stream just bums me out though, cause I’d love a streamed Nentir Vale campaign that was closer to Nentir Vale as originally presented, but Mike’s Vale is just... so close, but so far, you know?
For sure. If that did happen, I’d be happy for the folks who loved that version of the setting so much. But I would also be pretty disappointed that it wasn’t the NV I loved getting that recognition.
Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I love the Dawn War Pantheon, but I know what you mean. As a player, it’s great to have a smaller, more concise and manage list of Gods to deal with. As a DM, especially a worldbuilding DM, it feels really awkward that the same set of deities is recognized by everyone, even if they aren’t all necessarily revered by everyone. If you worship the sun, you worship Pelor, end of story, and that can feel a little (for lack of a better term) unrealistic.
That’s one of the things I tried to address in my homebrew approach to the setting. I use the core Dawn War Pantheon as archetypes that the various deities worshipped by different cultures throughout the world tend to fall into.
