RandomCitizenX
First Post
Sadly, quality does not always equal popularity.
Most well known D&D setting among non-D&D RPG players
- Thread starter AllisterH
- Start date
Sadly, quality does not always equal popularity.
WayneLigon
Adventurer
I would say FR would have much higher visibility now.
Are they still making DragonLance novels? There's a new Drizzt novel out, what, at least one a year. When was the last DL novel out, that wasn't shelved in with the other D&D/Star Trek/Star Wars books? Usually the only DL book I've seen shelved in with general fantasy has been the collections of the first two series.and those are quite dated now. I usually only see them around Christmas time when the chains order their lots of big gift collections.
Are they still making DragonLance novels? There's a new Drizzt novel out, what, at least one a year. When was the last DL novel out, that wasn't shelved in with the other D&D/Star Trek/Star Wars books? Usually the only DL book I've seen shelved in with general fantasy has been the collections of the first two series.and those are quite dated now. I usually only see them around Christmas time when the chains order their lots of big gift collections.
Wombat
First Post
I currently work in a bookstore to supplement my main income. I have seen a number of people who pick up Dragonlance books without ever playing D&D (and several of them do not even know there is a connection); increasingly there are people who pick up Forgotten Realms and Eberron novels without being gamers. Then again, this is also true for Warhammer, Halo, and some other "gamer novels".
Desdichado
Hero
Considering all the best-selling FR novels (which take up multiple shelves of any decent bookstore) and the best-selling FR CRPGs, I'd have to guess that FR is by far the most well-known setting outside of gaming.
Although I'd bet that most people who've read a FR novel or played a FR CRPG at the very least know that it's a D&D derivative work. At least. So I don't think FR exists independently of gaming by any means.
Although I'd bet that most people who've read a FR novel or played a FR CRPG at the very least know that it's a D&D derivative work. At least. So I don't think FR exists independently of gaming by any means.
JVisgaitis
Explorer
No way. The original Chronicles and Legends series were very well done, but The Chaos War and some of the newer stuff pales in comparison. Plus, there were all of those ridiculous books about the companions like the one were Sturm went to the moon. Those were some of the worst written books ever IMHO. Another thing to consider for FR is all of the hugely successful video games they have done. Bioware has tons of D&D titles that sold in excess of 3 million copies.
Ruin Explorer
Legend
The title specifies non-D&D RPG players. I'm assuming that means P&P RPG players who are not and have not been AD&D/D&D players.
I really do not believe that that's Dragonlance is the most well-known setting amongst the average non-D&D P&P RPG player these days. Maybe in 1988, but by 1998, FR was becoming better known, if only because it was so frequently mocked, and in so many popular CRPGs. By now? I'm quite sure it's the FR.
Nymrohd - The writing in both is of such an extremely low level (beyond the first few DL novels and a few random FR ones) that that's a hard distinction to make, to be honest. Dragonlance novels are less prone to "Mary Sue"-esque characters and obvious authorial power-trips, but equally can tend to be rather timid and juvenile. Certainly the audience doesn't give a sod, and it seems that power-trip fantasy and Mary-Sue-type stuff is pretty popular with a certain segment of the fantasy-reading populace (also with kids who don't know better).
Amongst the public in general I have no doubt that FR is better know. It certainly sells more books.
I really do not believe that that's Dragonlance is the most well-known setting amongst the average non-D&D P&P RPG player these days. Maybe in 1988, but by 1998, FR was becoming better known, if only because it was so frequently mocked, and in so many popular CRPGs. By now? I'm quite sure it's the FR.
Nymrohd - The writing in both is of such an extremely low level (beyond the first few DL novels and a few random FR ones) that that's a hard distinction to make, to be honest. Dragonlance novels are less prone to "Mary Sue"-esque characters and obvious authorial power-trips, but equally can tend to be rather timid and juvenile. Certainly the audience doesn't give a sod, and it seems that power-trip fantasy and Mary-Sue-type stuff is pretty popular with a certain segment of the fantasy-reading populace (also with kids who don't know better).
Amongst the public in general I have no doubt that FR is better know. It certainly sells more books.
Dragonlance is the most well known CAMPAIGN. When it comes to the companions epic journey, rise and fall of heroes, and the tales of villainy and conquest, pound for pound more people think of Dragonlance. The books are even required reading in some college level literature classes. Most books after Chronicles and Legends fail to approach the FR marketing machine.
When it comes to the singularly best known character? Drizzt. While players of Forgotten Realms games know quite a bit about the city of Baldur's Gate, Amn, Mithril Hall, Icewind Dales, and Myth Drannor as locations in general they don't actually know much of anything about the Forgotten Realms world as a whole. Inspite of this, the Drizzt novels are so profoundly marketed by comparison that it's hard not to at least have seen the scimitar wielding drow. It would be like playing 3 degrees to Drizzt Bacon.
When it comes to the singularly best known character? Drizzt. While players of Forgotten Realms games know quite a bit about the city of Baldur's Gate, Amn, Mithril Hall, Icewind Dales, and Myth Drannor as locations in general they don't actually know much of anything about the Forgotten Realms world as a whole. Inspite of this, the Drizzt novels are so profoundly marketed by comparison that it's hard not to at least have seen the scimitar wielding drow. It would be like playing 3 degrees to Drizzt Bacon.
Scribble
First Post
I started reading the FR books before I actually used the setting... At the time I thought it was a "lost world caveman" setting. (The collectible D&D cards at the time had a few from the different campaign settings... The FR ones were Dinosaurs.)
So, while I might have already beena gamer, I wasn't a fan of the realms.
Nymrohd said:
The first couple maybe... After a while Dragonlance became nothing but more stories of the Heros of the Lance... Stories of the Children of the Heroes of the lance... Stories about people who watched the heros oft eh lance do stuff...
Just got so sick of the damn heros of the lance. Was everyone else in the world so useless and boring???
Draksila
First Post
I'm assuming this is in regards to the TSR-created worlds.
I've read a little of all but the Eberron books. The Planescape books were wierd but interesting, the Greyhawk books seemed derivitave of the old Conan/Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser books, the Spelljammer books were just pirates in space, and as much as I love the Realms the books for both it and Krynn fall into the category of pulp (not necessarily bad, but prone to be cliche). The TSR books I loved the most personally have been the Christie Golden/James Lowder Ravenloft books, the Finder's Stone/Cormyr/Rise of the Archwizards Forgotten Realms books, and the War of Souls Dragonlance books... so as you can see, my opinion's a bit varied and includes the cliched pulp novels. On a side note, I hope Drizzt dies in a fire; he made my long-running campaign NPC Stareyes the mute good-aligned drow paladin (2E; I used to flub the rules of race/class combos on a regular basis) into something that people thought I was copying from that glory hog ranger.
Anyway, point being, I think all of the TSR/WotC novels have a great amount of room for improvement, and none of them are staggeringly original or intellectual (Planescape and Ravenloft come closest). But fantasy fans aren't picky, judging by what sold when I was working Borders and what my friends read, so they get exposed to a lot of stuff without even knowing there's a whole seperate use being made of the setting. Love it or leave it, it's highly likely that if you read fantasy you've stumbled on a TSR-created world at some point without even realizing it.
For the longest time, Dragonlance was the most visible TSR property... which even showed in their RPG sales strategy. The number of new Dragonlance books per year, not including continuous remakes of the War of the Lance, was second only to Greyhawk... which survived primarily based on being the first TSR setting (so it had nostalgia on its side). But then the Dragonlance novels began to decline on the NYTimes Bestseller list and in the sales figures, and between Spellfire and the Moonshae trilogy and the Drizzt books the Realms began to climb to prominence. This is why 2E became a bit Realms-focused, to be honest... the setting was the one selling at the time, and even though TSR's accounting department was crap, the marketing department knew which was their lead horse.
The licenses for the Realms still sell readily, when it comes to video games. Yes, there were games set on Krynn and even a failed attempt at a Spelljammer game. There was even the beloved-by-many-gamers Planescape game, Torment. But the focus is still on the Realms, with the old SSI gold box games leading into Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale and their console appearances, which led into Neverwinter Nights, which is leading gods know where. Eberron's had it's shot, and hopefully it gets another attempt... it's not the setting's fault that DDO couldn't grip gamers like the juggernaut that is WoW. But for now, the non-tabletoppers more readily recognize the franchises that make up the marketing of Faerun more easily than they recognize any other.
The books still sell, the games have devoted followings, and that blasted drow has become the poster boy for unnecessarily powerful fantasy heroes in today's marketplace. For the time being, the Realms are firmly entrenched as the most prominently visible TSR/WotC world.
I've read a little of all but the Eberron books. The Planescape books were wierd but interesting, the Greyhawk books seemed derivitave of the old Conan/Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser books, the Spelljammer books were just pirates in space, and as much as I love the Realms the books for both it and Krynn fall into the category of pulp (not necessarily bad, but prone to be cliche). The TSR books I loved the most personally have been the Christie Golden/James Lowder Ravenloft books, the Finder's Stone/Cormyr/Rise of the Archwizards Forgotten Realms books, and the War of Souls Dragonlance books... so as you can see, my opinion's a bit varied and includes the cliched pulp novels. On a side note, I hope Drizzt dies in a fire; he made my long-running campaign NPC Stareyes the mute good-aligned drow paladin (2E; I used to flub the rules of race/class combos on a regular basis) into something that people thought I was copying from that glory hog ranger.
Anyway, point being, I think all of the TSR/WotC novels have a great amount of room for improvement, and none of them are staggeringly original or intellectual (Planescape and Ravenloft come closest). But fantasy fans aren't picky, judging by what sold when I was working Borders and what my friends read, so they get exposed to a lot of stuff without even knowing there's a whole seperate use being made of the setting. Love it or leave it, it's highly likely that if you read fantasy you've stumbled on a TSR-created world at some point without even realizing it.
For the longest time, Dragonlance was the most visible TSR property... which even showed in their RPG sales strategy. The number of new Dragonlance books per year, not including continuous remakes of the War of the Lance, was second only to Greyhawk... which survived primarily based on being the first TSR setting (so it had nostalgia on its side). But then the Dragonlance novels began to decline on the NYTimes Bestseller list and in the sales figures, and between Spellfire and the Moonshae trilogy and the Drizzt books the Realms began to climb to prominence. This is why 2E became a bit Realms-focused, to be honest... the setting was the one selling at the time, and even though TSR's accounting department was crap, the marketing department knew which was their lead horse.
The licenses for the Realms still sell readily, when it comes to video games. Yes, there were games set on Krynn and even a failed attempt at a Spelljammer game. There was even the beloved-by-many-gamers Planescape game, Torment. But the focus is still on the Realms, with the old SSI gold box games leading into Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale and their console appearances, which led into Neverwinter Nights, which is leading gods know where. Eberron's had it's shot, and hopefully it gets another attempt... it's not the setting's fault that DDO couldn't grip gamers like the juggernaut that is WoW. But for now, the non-tabletoppers more readily recognize the franchises that make up the marketing of Faerun more easily than they recognize any other.
The books still sell, the games have devoted followings, and that blasted drow has become the poster boy for unnecessarily powerful fantasy heroes in today's marketplace. For the time being, the Realms are firmly entrenched as the most prominently visible TSR/WotC world.
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