Since they're monsters/NPCs, and likely heroic-level ones, they only have one healing surge per day. So the guys who were at death's door will only have 1/4 of their max hp. Still, since they're out of surges, the cleric probably couldn't help them much (except with Cure X Wounds utilities).
Non Lethal Damage?
- Thread starter Griogre
- Start date
So when you have full HPs and a cleric casts Cure Light Wounds on you, what happens? Nothing. You aren't less injured because of Cure Light Wounds because you have no wounds to heal. Or what, are you going to try to tell me Cure Light WOUNDS doesn't cure wounds? That DAMAGE dealt to someone from a sword HIT doesn't injure? That dying at 0 HPs isn't actually dying from WOUNDS, it's dying from bad luck and lack of endurance? Give it a rest.
Full HP = uninjured. Bloodied = injured. 0 HP = dying. It is really that simple.
The rest 5 minutes mechanic/healing surge thing is what doesn't jibe with the rest of the system and is utterly retarded.
Charwoman Gene
Adventurer
D&D healing and hit points have never made sense and never will. Just relax and accept it.
Ximenes088
First Post
In a word: no. Bloodied = halfway to defeated. That's all it means. During the prototypical two-man unarmored swordfight, the combatants aren't systematically carving large slabs of flesh out of each other. The winner of the fight may be- and often is- essentially unhurt. The loser is the one who made the first real mistake or got worn down to the point where he opened himself up to the killing blow. There was not some mysterious middle point where he was injured but not killed- there was "totally unwounded" and "disemboweled". That's what most D&D fights are about. That's what most D&D fights have _always_ been about, since the hoary days of olde when Gygax was patiently explaining to us that a 5th level fighter didn't take five times the bodily harm of a first level one before he fell over.
It's possible to take some ultra-hardline definition of HP as health, like "At level 1, an 8 HP blow disembowels you. At level 10, an 8 HP blow nicks you. At all levels, damage always indicates some degree of injury. Thus, curative spells always indicate some degree of physical healing." You can do that. And then you can explain why it's ridiculous that a 10th level PC can spend five minutes applying Bactine and be good as new for all practical purposes.
Paul Strack
First Post
That's what it meant in earlier editions of D&D. Not any more.
It's only retarded if you insist on interpreting HP as above.
Personally I interpret 4E Hit Points in terms of action movie mechanics. When you get hit in combat, you are hurt (cut up, bruised, bleeding, etc.), but like an action hero, those injuries don’t matter much if you survive the fight. You shrug off your pain and soldier on, ready for the next fight (by spending healing surges). Your long term injuries are represented by lost healing surges, not lost hit points.
The nature of "healing" depends on its source. If you spend a healing surge, you are sucking it up, finding a renewed will to fight despite your injuries. When a Warlord uses his Inspiring Word, his leadership improves your morale, making you more willing to fight. When a Cleric uses her Healing Word, your wounds do actually knit back together, but you are still somewhat spiritually and emotionally depleted (because you are down healing surges).
If you recognize that injuries are represented by the combination of lost HP and lost Healing Surges, the 4E rules work fine.
Please avoid using the term "retarded" as a pejorative; it's offensive and juvenile.
Regicide, HP is an abstraction, more now than ever before. In previous editions, hit points could've just as easily been called "health points", (or even "heart pieces" for the Zelda-inclined), but no longer. Now one must emphasize the abstractedness of the "hit" in "hit points". Wounds and physical injuries are one kind of "hit" in 4E, but not necessarily the only kind; for simplicity's sake, however, all types of "hits" are tracked together against "hit points", and "healing" recovers "hit points" regardless of the type of "hits" suffered.
Not only is this abstract method simple and functional, it also makes the handwaving realism easier; for example, warriors can be beat up and bloody but still feel "better than ever", and not really be worse for the wear, mechanically. (If Cure Light Wounds is a problem for you, imagine that even on a character with full HP the spell closes the minor cuts and scrapes that the mechanics ignore.)
Actually, the meaning of hit points hasn't changed. They have always been a mixture of health, luck, confidence, and all those other things.
Lots of people have glossed over that right from the early days of D&D, but it's there in the rulebooks (at least it is in the 1e definition).
I recall this, if not from one of actual rulebooks then from one of roleplaying supplements written by Gary Gygax. ("Master of the Game", maybe?) I definitely recall reading an example where the hit points of a high-level fighter were compared to those of a horse; the author went on to say how, even though in life it's patently ridiculous to presume any human could sustain the same level of physical trauma as a horse, in the game, the fighter would have more hit points, because of the abstract nature of what they represent.
Hp
The only way I could see changing out HP would be kind of complicated. getting rid of the RPG system would mean you have a set among vs factors (bonus for Con and Str)
Ive played some games where the character had a set HP. you would get skills or levels and gain a couple more (going from 3 or so to 4 or 5) so you really had to be careful.
If everyone had only 15 HP (Str and Con maybe 20 or 25hp), an weapon doing 1d8 would with str and skill bonus could be devastating rolling a 20. You would really want that cleric and healing potions, buffs, ect.
Instead RPGs just increase all the values per level. Making it impossible to have a level 1 or 2 getting a lucky shot and killing or maiming a level 20. I never understood this logic but that’s what we do. I do like how characters become more powerful, but if you want it to make sense then you’ll have to rework details.
In writing this, I have just realized that the 20th century thinking of RPGs is nothing more then a game of inflating HP and damage values represented by levels, where enemies to be a challenge also gain HP and damage.
Really the game doesn’t get harder, just more cumbersome with numbers.
The only way I could see changing out HP would be kind of complicated. getting rid of the RPG system would mean you have a set among vs factors (bonus for Con and Str)
Ive played some games where the character had a set HP. you would get skills or levels and gain a couple more (going from 3 or so to 4 or 5) so you really had to be careful.
If everyone had only 15 HP (Str and Con maybe 20 or 25hp), an weapon doing 1d8 would with str and skill bonus could be devastating rolling a 20. You would really want that cleric and healing potions, buffs, ect.
Instead RPGs just increase all the values per level. Making it impossible to have a level 1 or 2 getting a lucky shot and killing or maiming a level 20. I never understood this logic but that’s what we do. I do like how characters become more powerful, but if you want it to make sense then you’ll have to rework details.
In writing this, I have just realized that the 20th century thinking of RPGs is nothing more then a game of inflating HP and damage values represented by levels, where enemies to be a challenge also gain HP and damage.
Really the game doesn’t get harder, just more cumbersome with numbers.
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I'm sure most people know this already, but I can't help responding to the generalisation above.
These points are only true for the D&D family of games and those inspired by it (like Rolemaster). There are a huge number of games which have hit point-like stats that don't increase with level (and don't even have levels, gasp!), and yet still remain highly playable.
There are even a few games that depart a long way from the concept of hit points as presented in D&D, and even a few which have no hit point-like stat at all. Even games where the player's character cannot die!
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