So THAT's why Regdar gets no love...

[StreamOfTheSky]

I think, avoid race and gender because we've already been in that minefield recently, that the dead Redgars are a statement about marketing interfering with the creative vision.

I find it comparable to Battlestar Galactica, when marketing asked them to have "a birthday party or something" and they did the 1000th landing ceremony where like 7 people were killed. I think the dead Redgars are a message to marketing that says "If you force us to change our vision, we don't have a choice, but you're not going to like the end result."

If it were simply a case of this, the dead Regdar thing wouldn't have gone on so long, even extending into the 4E book -- where there are no pre-built characters! (far as I know, only read the opening chapters, races, classes, skills, feats, items, equipment, and combat chapters)

No, to me, there's clearly more malice going on than just getting back at the marketing people. Unless the thing in the Rituals chapter was just more re-used artwork.

 

[Cadfan]

Mixed feelings. On one hand, the reasoning was terrible. On the other hand, the frat-boy jock stereotype IS awfully iconic, and if your goal was to make the iconics as generic as possible, it does make sense to have the white guy be the fighter.

 

[CountPopeula]

No, to me, there's clearly more malice going on than just getting back at the marketing people. Unless the thing in the Rituals chapter was just more re-used artwork.

I don't think so. He's like Jar Jar Binks to the creative team, and I think that's the beginning and the end of it right there.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Liking Regdar doesn't make you racist/sexist by any means. Marketing people saying "we need a white male to be front and center" is racist and sexist. Very big difference there. Don't go looking for insults that aren't there. If you re-read it, Monte Cook never claims that fans who like the character are racist and sexist.

No, it's not. It's saying that the face of the game needs to be as universally appealing as possible because that's what sells. Marketing is nothing if not mercenary; if they thought they'd sell more books with a one-legged Asian albino on the cover, you'd bet your ass that's what'd be on there.

Someone not buying the game because one of the iconics was a minority (or not buying it because they *weren't* a minority) is racist and/or sexist.

The content guys are the ones that broke 'The Understanding' by intentionally tweaking the composition of the iconics to fit their pre-conceived notions of egalitarianism and what should appeal to gamers. They peed in Marketing's cornflakes, not the other way around.

 

[Propagandroid]

So, since Regdar always appears dead, we can infer that all D&D designers want white men dead, right?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I loathed Regdar. He was dull as ditchwater and he had one of those ludicrous chin-beards w/o mustache that only a strange subsection of Americans between the ages of 21 and 30 seem to think is even remotely cool. Yeah, I hate characters for bad facial hair? Is that a problem? In a game with so much quality facial hair, he stood out as a beacon of bad beardage. He also reminds me of that unspeakably dull wanker who is the lead "character" in Gears of War and I use the term "character" advisedly because he has No Percievable Personality (apart from "Badass" in the most retarded way possible) and was evidently designed for maximum quasi-frat-boy appeal. When I saw Regdar dead in the rituals chapter I have to admit, my mouth quirked up into a little smile.

Then again when I saw stone'd Regdar in the MM. It really made my day actually.

I had no idea he was a marketing addition, but it makes sense now.

StreamoftheSky - Dude, you've clearly never met artists. Any illustrator or artist I know would have given him a harder time than the WotC artists have. Marketing imposition alone is more than enough to explain the hate, though I think him being extremely dull inspired yet more hate.

 

[Barastrondo]

The content guys are the ones that broke 'The Understanding' by intentionally tweaking the composition of the iconics to fit their pre-conceived notions of egalitarianism and what should appeal to gamers. They peed in Marketing's cornflakes, not the other way around.

Last I checked, there were several white males among the iconics before you factored in Regdar.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

Liking Regdar doesn't make you racist/sexist by any means. Marketing people saying "we need a white male to be front and center" is racist and sexist. Very big difference there. Don't go looking for insults that aren't there. If you re-read it, Monte Cook never claims that fans who like the character are racist and sexist.

Individual fans making a choice to like a character is a far cry from marketing people presuming that ALL fans will ONLY like the character as long as he's a white male. Very different things. So feel free to gladly like Regdar without believing the Monte is condemning you.

I was just kidding.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

I loathed Regdar. He was dull as ditchwater and he had one of those ludicrous chin-beards w/o mustache that only a strange subsection of Americans between the ages of 21 and 30 seem to think is even remotely cool. Yeah, I hate characters for bad facial hair? Is that a problem? In a game with so much quality facial hair, he stood out as a beacon of bad beardage. He also reminds me of that unspeakably dull wanker who is the lead "character" in Gears of War and I use the term "character" advisedly because he has No Percievable Personality (apart from "Badass" in the most retarded way possible) and was evidently designed for maximum quasi-frat-boy appeal.

I have a "ludicrous chin-beards w/o mustache" and I thought Marcus Fenix was cool. :/

I was never a frat boy so...

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

StreamoftheSky - Dude, you've clearly never met artists. Any illustrator or artist I know would have given him a harder time than the WotC artists have. Marketing imposition alone is more than enough to explain the hate, though I think him being extremely dull inspired yet more hate.

My fiancee actually graduated college with an art degree... Granted, she hasn't done any work in the field, but I just found that funny.

So, since Regdar always appears dead, we can infer that all D&D designers want white men dead, right?

Nice hyperbole. All I'm saying is, the way the illustrators apparantly have reacted to the slight, and the way people seemed to be joyously reacting to seeing the white guy getting killed is just as bad as what the marketing people did, if not worse. And for the record, I never really cared for Regdar. Or Tordek. The whole free pass dwarves got in overpoweredness and bland stereotypes as people continued to levy complaints against elves for those very things (mostly from injustices in past editions) annoys me (as a gamer) more than the racist/sexist inclusion of Regdar.