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Rate WotC as a company
- Thread starter Kzach
- Start date
nerfherder
Adventurer
I gave them a 3. It would have been a 4 for what seems like a solid strategy for 4e, but they have mis-managed the online content and GSL.
smootrk
First Post
I gave a 1. I could have possibly given them more for some past gem products and for the general resurgence of D&D in general starting with 3rd edition... but more recent events have been severe mis-steps... starting with 'we are not close to having a new edition' talks, followed by, you guessed it, '4e announcements', even within the same month. Shuttering the print mags to make more room for their awful experiment in online content of the same type was/is a disaster. GSL "with us or against us" is one of the worst marketing ideas that I can imagine, but time will still tell whether the strategy works for them - it just does not work for me (who actually is interested in 3rd party products). Shoddy products, misleading advertisments, and plain old crap products round out my list.
Sorry WotC. Until something radical happens again, like selling the division to mattel or even some random Chinese company, I think you have lost me as a customer. I have my 4e PHB just in case I cannot find a game using another system, but otherwise, I believe that I am done.
Sorry WotC. Until something radical happens again, like selling the division to mattel or even some random Chinese company, I think you have lost me as a customer. I have my 4e PHB just in case I cannot find a game using another system, but otherwise, I believe that I am done.
3catcircus
Adventurer
My choice not listed
I can't find -00 "double-oh negative" in the list of options on this poll.
1. Dumbing down the game to attract a nebulous group of "new" players while alienating an existing fanbase that *wants* to like the new edition and would normally be guaranteed sales? Not smart.
2. Continued lack of editing. Lazy.
3. Killing off Dungeon and Dragon magazines and replacing them with something full of fail. The articles in the online versions of them are on par with the web articles previously and they expect me to actually pay for them now?
4. Being told that the books would be offered as pdf for a nominal fee and trotting out a whole "risky scheme" with codes in books and whatnot. Then (me) being yelled at (on this very website) for challenging the approach. Then having the approach turn out to be 1000% different.
5. The PDFs being of lower quality than those that can be found on p2p networks, and for nearly full dead-tree price.
6. Character sheets that are free online being packaged and sold for $9.99. No effort whatsoever on their part went into this product.
7. The GSL.
8. "What is this DDI of which you speak?"
It seems evident to me that the executive management at WotC doesn't know what they are doing while middle and lower management are either following along or are asleep at the wheel. In any case, at some point, the train that is WotC derails, with bodies spilling out everywhere. I think that the debris on the track causing the derailment will end up being 3pp who publish for 4e without using the GSL coupled with Paizo's Pathfinder.
When taken in parts, these things seem to be relatively minor. But lets look at them in whole:
1. Poor quality printing and binding.
2. Rapid PDF of the books with no bookmarking.
3. No DDI.
4. The character sheet fiasco.
It looks to me like WotC is hurting for cash (which means they are also hurting for manpower as a result). I really think that they are in survival mode right now, minimizing costs associated with daily operation while frantically trying to trot out something for the DDI. Lets face it - the business model for 4e is DDI subscriptions and they are way behind on that revenue stream.
I can't find -00 "double-oh negative" in the list of options on this poll.
1. Dumbing down the game to attract a nebulous group of "new" players while alienating an existing fanbase that *wants* to like the new edition and would normally be guaranteed sales? Not smart.
2. Continued lack of editing. Lazy.
3. Killing off Dungeon and Dragon magazines and replacing them with something full of fail. The articles in the online versions of them are on par with the web articles previously and they expect me to actually pay for them now?
4. Being told that the books would be offered as pdf for a nominal fee and trotting out a whole "risky scheme" with codes in books and whatnot. Then (me) being yelled at (on this very website) for challenging the approach. Then having the approach turn out to be 1000% different.
5. The PDFs being of lower quality than those that can be found on p2p networks, and for nearly full dead-tree price.
6. Character sheets that are free online being packaged and sold for $9.99. No effort whatsoever on their part went into this product.
7. The GSL.
8. "What is this DDI of which you speak?"
It seems evident to me that the executive management at WotC doesn't know what they are doing while middle and lower management are either following along or are asleep at the wheel. In any case, at some point, the train that is WotC derails, with bodies spilling out everywhere. I think that the debris on the track causing the derailment will end up being 3pp who publish for 4e without using the GSL coupled with Paizo's Pathfinder.
When taken in parts, these things seem to be relatively minor. But lets look at them in whole:
1. Poor quality printing and binding.
2. Rapid PDF of the books with no bookmarking.
3. No DDI.
4. The character sheet fiasco.
It looks to me like WotC is hurting for cash (which means they are also hurting for manpower as a result). I really think that they are in survival mode right now, minimizing costs associated with daily operation while frantically trying to trot out something for the DDI. Lets face it - the business model for 4e is DDI subscriptions and they are way behind on that revenue stream.
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Xyxox
Hero
I gave a 2. The quality of the products diminishes with each year, they've missed the deadline for a major portion of 4E (DDI), and they treat third party partners like trash.
They'll drop to a 1 if there is no full blown tabletop for DDI by the end of August, IMO.
If they go to the end of September with no full blown DDI, they're a 0.
They'll drop to a 1 if there is no full blown tabletop for DDI by the end of August, IMO.
If they go to the end of September with no full blown DDI, they're a 0.
zoroaster100
First Post
I answered with a 3. The main reasons pushing me to like the company are:
1) I like fourth edition a lot.
2) I am overall pretty happy with the content of the core books, and Keep on the Shadowfell, as well as recent Dungeon and Dragon articles.
3) Quick errata issued for problems in core books.
4) Fairly decent level of interaction and responsiveness from WOTC developers and designers to community responses on the internet.
The main detractions from my overall feeling are (from highest to lowest in importance):
1) Cancellation of Paizo's Dungeon and Dragon magazine license.
2) Talk about charging for individual digital miniature "sculpts" on DDI.
3) Low production value of core books and especially Keep on the
Shadowfell - smearing cover and interior pages, flimsy paper.
4) Delays in delivering on DDI functionality.
5) Too many changes in the "fluff" of D&D monsters and implied setting that felt unnecessary in order to implement the new edition rules. I can see where some changes were good. But too much change in fluff, at the same time as big (and necessary) changes were in the rules, added too much fuel to the division of the D&D fanbase. And I felt there was too much arrogance on the part of some designers in disdaining the old traditions which they were destroying. They did not handle this transition with enough sensitivity to those whose beloved traditions of D&D were being uprooted. Some traditions were rightfully abandoned. But I felt they placed too little value on continuity.
1) I like fourth edition a lot.
2) I am overall pretty happy with the content of the core books, and Keep on the Shadowfell, as well as recent Dungeon and Dragon articles.
3) Quick errata issued for problems in core books.
4) Fairly decent level of interaction and responsiveness from WOTC developers and designers to community responses on the internet.
The main detractions from my overall feeling are (from highest to lowest in importance):
1) Cancellation of Paizo's Dungeon and Dragon magazine license.
2) Talk about charging for individual digital miniature "sculpts" on DDI.
3) Low production value of core books and especially Keep on the
Shadowfell - smearing cover and interior pages, flimsy paper.
4) Delays in delivering on DDI functionality.
5) Too many changes in the "fluff" of D&D monsters and implied setting that felt unnecessary in order to implement the new edition rules. I can see where some changes were good. But too much change in fluff, at the same time as big (and necessary) changes were in the rules, added too much fuel to the division of the D&D fanbase. And I felt there was too much arrogance on the part of some designers in disdaining the old traditions which they were destroying. They did not handle this transition with enough sensitivity to those whose beloved traditions of D&D were being uprooted. Some traditions were rightfully abandoned. But I felt they placed too little value on continuity.
I really tried to give them a 3 or 4, but I ended up with a 2.
Let’s start with the computer products for 3e, which was entirely mismanaged. And they dared say, “Buy this crap or you won’t get anything else.” Lots of signs make me feel they’ve learned nothing in this area.
Then there’s the fact that their web site has always been only passable. They have good content, but the design and usability was never great. It’s only gotten worse. Oddly, at a time when they’re trying to convince people to pay for online content.
I’ve argued for taking the magazines online, but if you’re going to take them away from Paizo, you better be very sure your going to have something better.
The forums. OK, maybe I’m silly for mourning the loss of NNTP access, but the Gleemax thing was not only silly, but badly handled as well.
They did make some older stuff freely available. They did the ESD program. They did eventually make the oD&D boxed set available as a PDF.
I’ve said my bit on minis, and I don’t care to re-open that discussion.
I think they’ve done a poor job on producing entry level RPG products, and as the biggest company in the industry they should be doing much, much better at that.
And, of course, there’s the fact that Wizards products aren’t earning much of my money.
Of course, I’m much better at listing negatives than positives. There are lots of positives about the company.
Plus, I’m only really judging from a D&D angle, which isn’t really fair to them. (Although it really bugs me to see Avalon Hill reduced to what it is, but I don’t know that I can blame Wizards for that.)
Hmm...I guess I probably shouldn’t gone for three instead.
Let’s start with the computer products for 3e, which was entirely mismanaged. And they dared say, “Buy this crap or you won’t get anything else.” Lots of signs make me feel they’ve learned nothing in this area.
Then there’s the fact that their web site has always been only passable. They have good content, but the design and usability was never great. It’s only gotten worse. Oddly, at a time when they’re trying to convince people to pay for online content.
I’ve argued for taking the magazines online, but if you’re going to take them away from Paizo, you better be very sure your going to have something better.
The forums. OK, maybe I’m silly for mourning the loss of NNTP access, but the Gleemax thing was not only silly, but badly handled as well.
They did make some older stuff freely available. They did the ESD program. They did eventually make the oD&D boxed set available as a PDF.
I’ve said my bit on minis, and I don’t care to re-open that discussion.
I think they’ve done a poor job on producing entry level RPG products, and as the biggest company in the industry they should be doing much, much better at that.
And, of course, there’s the fact that Wizards products aren’t earning much of my money.
Of course, I’m much better at listing negatives than positives. There are lots of positives about the company.
Plus, I’m only really judging from a D&D angle, which isn’t really fair to them. (Although it really bugs me to see Avalon Hill reduced to what it is, but I don’t know that I can blame Wizards for that.)
Hmm...I guess I probably shouldn’t gone for three instead.
wayne62682
First Post
I voted a 4. I enjoy 4e and I have no problem with them cutting things out of the first PHB to print later (that way they can get them right, instead of some half-assed broken attempt). I also don't care about the GSL because I have never nor will ever use third party supplements. I don't care much about the online move to Dragon and Dungeon (less physical space is a good thing to me), but I don't like how they seem to do it infrequently like they were the old site articles.
What bugs me, however, is the vaporware of DDI, and the utter crap that is their website. I'm an ASP.NET web developer (ASP.NET is what Gleemax uses) and it absolutely disgusts me how shoddy their website is and how it barely works; any developer with a shred of knowledge could do a better job, so either they're being cheapskates and cutting corners, hiring idiots who don't really know what they're doing, or whomever is in charge of the project is some typical PHB (that's Pointy Haired Boss, not Player's Handbook) who knows nothing about technology but has somehow gotten to manage developers and is therefore setting ridiculous deadlines and/or requesting ridiculous features.
Also the fact that DDI is nonexistant despite promises. Either they're biting off a lot more than they can chew, which will result in the final product being worthless, or they're completely clueless and trying to stall for time while they figure out how to salvage things. Either way, it's not excusable.
My biggest issue is that WotC's staff repeatedly try to pull the "This is going to be great. I can't tell you anything about it yet, or show you anything, but trust me. It's awesome. You'll love it!" sales/marketing approach whenever they're questioned about things, and yet when something is finally revealed it's either totally different from what they were saying before (agreeing 100% with 3catcircus here) or it's shoddy and barely works at all. I would find that inexecuasable for a small startup, let alone the "official" company that's owned by the largest game/toy company in the world.
What bugs me, however, is the vaporware of DDI, and the utter crap that is their website. I'm an ASP.NET web developer (ASP.NET is what Gleemax uses) and it absolutely disgusts me how shoddy their website is and how it barely works; any developer with a shred of knowledge could do a better job, so either they're being cheapskates and cutting corners, hiring idiots who don't really know what they're doing, or whomever is in charge of the project is some typical PHB (that's Pointy Haired Boss, not Player's Handbook) who knows nothing about technology but has somehow gotten to manage developers and is therefore setting ridiculous deadlines and/or requesting ridiculous features.
Also the fact that DDI is nonexistant despite promises. Either they're biting off a lot more than they can chew, which will result in the final product being worthless, or they're completely clueless and trying to stall for time while they figure out how to salvage things. Either way, it's not excusable.
My biggest issue is that WotC's staff repeatedly try to pull the "This is going to be great. I can't tell you anything about it yet, or show you anything, but trust me. It's awesome. You'll love it!" sales/marketing approach whenever they're questioned about things, and yet when something is finally revealed it's either totally different from what they were saying before (agreeing 100% with 3catcircus here) or it's shoddy and barely works at all. I would find that inexecuasable for a small startup, let alone the "official" company that's owned by the largest game/toy company in the world.
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cougent
First Post
I gave them a 2, strongly considered a 1.
That had nothing to do with my feelings for 4E, it has everything to do with products thay have produced... or not produced. My initial frustration does go all the way back to e-Tools. After pre-ordering the product and getting the original 1.0 CD that was almost totally useless, downloading the 1.1 patch from Fluid which fixed almost nothing, and then progressing through the various Code Monkey Publishing patches upt to 1.666 the program finally became tolerable. So what does WotC do, they kill it entirely. Fine, give me my $30 back then.
Then to add insult to injury, WotC decides not to license out character generation to any programmers who have character creation software products, no instead they will once again pull a Microsoft and reinvent the wheel themselves, and again create a product that will have built in shortcomings, in this case a required Internet connection and a monthly "rental" fee. You can't buy the product and just use it, you can only borrow it at WotC descretiuon (The site is temporarily down for maintenance) and as long as you keep paying for it. Create a character today, stop paying in a month or six, bye-bye character.
As a subscriber or buyer of Dragon magazine since issue 45, I was dumbstruck with the cancellation of the magazine. Having seen other magazines convert to online only however I decided to give it the benefit of the doubt. I didn't have high expectations for the first attempt, but now almost a year later it is just as bad as ever. Yes it is still free, a temporary consolation prize, but as it exists now I would not pay for it if it were a subscription product. Assuring me it will get better AS a subscription product is not going to fly either... I already drank that Kool-Aid once with e-Tools and will not drink again, ever!
I have not purchased the 4E books, and from what I am hearing about the production quality, I do not want to even if I do convert to 4E. This may be the catalyst that drives me to PDF books (from WotC anyway) from here on out. I am sure they don't mind that since they charge almost as much for a PDF file that has an extremely low production cost as they do for a printed book that has significant production costs. More profit for them! I don't begrudge them a profit, but when the competition recognizes these differences in production costs with discounted PDF versus print products, it further alienates me from buying WotC products.
For me it is more about quality than brand name, and since I am a 3.5 supporter the brand name thing has almost no meaning now anyway. If WotC raises the bar on its production quality then I will not rule out future purchases in spite or anything like that, but for now I am just not impressed with their offerings.
That had nothing to do with my feelings for 4E, it has everything to do with products thay have produced... or not produced. My initial frustration does go all the way back to e-Tools. After pre-ordering the product and getting the original 1.0 CD that was almost totally useless, downloading the 1.1 patch from Fluid which fixed almost nothing, and then progressing through the various Code Monkey Publishing patches upt to 1.666 the program finally became tolerable. So what does WotC do, they kill it entirely. Fine, give me my $30 back then.
Then to add insult to injury, WotC decides not to license out character generation to any programmers who have character creation software products, no instead they will once again pull a Microsoft and reinvent the wheel themselves, and again create a product that will have built in shortcomings, in this case a required Internet connection and a monthly "rental" fee. You can't buy the product and just use it, you can only borrow it at WotC descretiuon (The site is temporarily down for maintenance) and as long as you keep paying for it. Create a character today, stop paying in a month or six, bye-bye character.
As a subscriber or buyer of Dragon magazine since issue 45, I was dumbstruck with the cancellation of the magazine. Having seen other magazines convert to online only however I decided to give it the benefit of the doubt. I didn't have high expectations for the first attempt, but now almost a year later it is just as bad as ever. Yes it is still free, a temporary consolation prize, but as it exists now I would not pay for it if it were a subscription product. Assuring me it will get better AS a subscription product is not going to fly either... I already drank that Kool-Aid once with e-Tools and will not drink again, ever!
I have not purchased the 4E books, and from what I am hearing about the production quality, I do not want to even if I do convert to 4E. This may be the catalyst that drives me to PDF books (from WotC anyway) from here on out. I am sure they don't mind that since they charge almost as much for a PDF file that has an extremely low production cost as they do for a printed book that has significant production costs. More profit for them! I don't begrudge them a profit, but when the competition recognizes these differences in production costs with discounted PDF versus print products, it further alienates me from buying WotC products.
For me it is more about quality than brand name, and since I am a 3.5 supporter the brand name thing has almost no meaning now anyway. If WotC raises the bar on its production quality then I will not rule out future purchases in spite or anything like that, but for now I am just not impressed with their offerings.
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JoeGKushner
Adventurer
Voted 2.
Cancelling print Dungeon and Dragon.
Letting electronic versions of said magazine basically do nothing for months.
Lack of 4e support for last of 3e books. "We've put this brand new logo on it and promise some support for it. But we're not going to have it ready when 4e launches..."
DDI so pitiful that it can't even keep you logged in.
Lateness of the whole of DDI.
Poor worksmanship/effort/material for first adventure. Where were the pregenerated characters olnine when it first came out? Why did a third party have to make tokens for it? Why isn't there more actual you know, advice on running the game for new players and GMs?
Vast delays on the license for third parties. Vast changes to the license.
GSL is very unfriendly to third parties and this insures that we'll never see a Tome of Horrors or Freeport 4e. Or at least not under the license.
Miniature line has some very uneven work and appears to be simplified from previous material.
Character sheets are a joke.
PDFs are beyond what I'd pay for them and to me, overpriced. That's okay. Not having errata despite it already gathered for the first wave? That's not okay.
PDF's completely changing form what we've been told for months in terms of the DDI and a minor purchase? That's not cool. It went from being on the DDI to going to a third party.
The excuses of why everything is so late/screwed up. "It's 4e! We have to concentrate on it." Okay. If this was something that some screwball just thought up and forced onto the company, sure, I'd buy that. As opposed to something that the company has known was coming out for a long, long, long, long time.
Reuse of art in the 4e core books.
Price increase on the core books.
Core books not having the same page count despite having the same price.
Cancelling print Dungeon and Dragon.
Letting electronic versions of said magazine basically do nothing for months.
Lack of 4e support for last of 3e books. "We've put this brand new logo on it and promise some support for it. But we're not going to have it ready when 4e launches..."
DDI so pitiful that it can't even keep you logged in.
Lateness of the whole of DDI.
Poor worksmanship/effort/material for first adventure. Where were the pregenerated characters olnine when it first came out? Why did a third party have to make tokens for it? Why isn't there more actual you know, advice on running the game for new players and GMs?
Vast delays on the license for third parties. Vast changes to the license.
GSL is very unfriendly to third parties and this insures that we'll never see a Tome of Horrors or Freeport 4e. Or at least not under the license.
Miniature line has some very uneven work and appears to be simplified from previous material.
Character sheets are a joke.
PDFs are beyond what I'd pay for them and to me, overpriced. That's okay. Not having errata despite it already gathered for the first wave? That's not okay.
PDF's completely changing form what we've been told for months in terms of the DDI and a minor purchase? That's not cool. It went from being on the DDI to going to a third party.
The excuses of why everything is so late/screwed up. "It's 4e! We have to concentrate on it." Okay. If this was something that some screwball just thought up and forced onto the company, sure, I'd buy that. As opposed to something that the company has known was coming out for a long, long, long, long time.
Reuse of art in the 4e core books.
Price increase on the core books.
Core books not having the same page count despite having the same price.
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