Xyxox
Hero
That would eb a pretty cruel joke on the new player, IMO.
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Rate WotC as a company
- Thread starter Kzach
- Start date
That would eb a pretty cruel joke on the new player, IMO.
HalWhitewyrm
First Post
I normally don't pay attention to E3 since up to last year I did not have a videogame system, so I cannot compare it to years prior. The quality of the presentations were a bit blah, yes, but the content (actual announcements of games/features coming aside) itself was enough for me to draw comparisons between the two. Money aside, our two industries have a lot in common, and there are things we could learn from them.
CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing (He/They)
Overall, I think they are a good company who does good work. Their products and customer service are about par with their competitors, and who could ask for more? This gives them the perfectly respectable rating of 3.
3rd Edition was (in my insignificant opinion) the best product they ever came out with, one that I have enjoyed for almost a decade and counting. Not to get overly mushy about it, but thanks to my 3.x D&D campaign, I have built relationships that will last a lifetime (I even married one of my players). That, and they have The Rouse working for them, an awesome fellow whom I have mad respect for. This merits a rating of 6, according to the OP's rules.
Sadly, they have ended our beloved 3.x system. I understand their reasons, but still: would it have really been so bad to keep the product line open? Most gamers (in my area, at least) are still playing 3.x, and we don't really like the choices that WotC has left us with. This merits a rating of 1.
So the average of the ratings is 3.33, and in the great D&D tradition of "always round down," I hereby give them a solid 3.
3rd Edition was (in my insignificant opinion) the best product they ever came out with, one that I have enjoyed for almost a decade and counting. Not to get overly mushy about it, but thanks to my 3.x D&D campaign, I have built relationships that will last a lifetime (I even married one of my players). That, and they have The Rouse working for them, an awesome fellow whom I have mad respect for. This merits a rating of 6, according to the OP's rules.
Sadly, they have ended our beloved 3.x system. I understand their reasons, but still: would it have really been so bad to keep the product line open? Most gamers (in my area, at least) are still playing 3.x, and we don't really like the choices that WotC has left us with. This merits a rating of 1.
So the average of the ratings is 3.33, and in the great D&D tradition of "always round down," I hereby give them a solid 3.
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ki11erDM
Explorer
Ahh got to love the intert00bs. So many petty reason to think badly of people/corporations.
The best one is the complaint over the character sheets. For the love of all that is good just print out the PDF… who in their right mind would buy those sheets in the first place? Really? LOL
The best one is the complaint over the character sheets. For the love of all that is good just print out the PDF… who in their right mind would buy those sheets in the first place? Really? LOL
DM_Jeff
Explorer
Just a few years back I would have rated them much higher. I still liked their products toward the end of 3.5 and so did my players. But the trends in editing left a number of things desired, along with a "withdrawal" if you will from the community at large (only to attempt a hasty reconciliation just before the announcement of 4e).
While in 1999-2003 they were personable and approachable (and showed signs of listening), this has slowly withered away to nothing, with more of an attitude of designing things they like, not what customers like…unfortunately reminding me of TSR’s decent.
-DM Jeff
While in 1999-2003 they were personable and approachable (and showed signs of listening), this has slowly withered away to nothing, with more of an attitude of designing things they like, not what customers like…unfortunately reminding me of TSR’s decent.
-DM Jeff
Ruin Explorer
Legend
ki11erDM - Your comments seem to be founded on a basis that we should automatically think well of, or respect corporations and businesses, even when their actions don't benefit us. This seems, to me, utterly without validity and bordering on the brain-washed. If this isn't your position, please explain, in detail, why you think we shouldn't complain about actual problems that a company has caused, or things it's failed to do, or inferior products it's produced?
As to the original question, I'm generally impressed with 4E. I have WotC a 3, though I'd have prefered a 3.5 (out of 5), but there are some really serious blemishes on their record that make me, as a consumer, less keen on purchasing their products, and less impressed with them as a company. Specifically:
1) DDI - This is still, long after it was supposed to be released, completely unfinished. All that we have is Dragon and Dungeon, and whilst it's nice that they're free and all, it's not at all impressive, given Paizo were able to do this without issues. The D&D Rules Compendium has become a poorly-edited non-rules, PC-creation/levelling-info-only compendium, which is weakly useful, at best. The other parts simply aren't there. The tabletop, the character generator, the dungeon builder? No sign of them, and they're what was important to me. I know my brother wanted the 4E PHB on the grounds that he'd be able to play online via. the DDI, and he was shocked to find out that it simply hadn't been implemented, and has absolutely no timeline/date for it's implementation. This brings me to my second issue.
2) The GSL - Extremely unfriendly, basically a lawyer's wet dream, and seems designed to intentionally "put off" major companies (and has been successful in doing so) from producing officially 4E-compatible material. It also doesn't allow for any software products, which ties in with the first problem - WotC is failing to provide software solutions, whilst simultaneously blocking others from providing them. This is a highly unsatisfactory situation. Unsatisfactory to WotC too, I'm sure, but there are ways out of it, and they're unwilling to take them.
3) Product quality - Outside of the "holy trinity", I've been unimpressed with product quality. KotS seems poorly written, is in a format that doesn't seem very helpful (the flimsy double-folder format), and the adventure itself is on the thinnest paper in gaming history, and smudges extremely easily. The character record sheets are simply a rip-off, and unworthy of WotC. Whilst it's very easy to say "Oh just print them out!", clearly someone who is buying the record sheets doesn't want to do that for whatever reason. That's not an excuse to rip them off! I'm concerned that we'll continue to see cheap, low-quality-seeming products like these. I'm also unimpressed that they seem to have released with quite SO many rather serious errata in the PHB and DMG. I like errata, especially in a "tightly-engineered" system like 4E, and I'd rather have them than not, but I'd also rather have waited a month or two more and gotten books with the corrections already in.
As to the original question, I'm generally impressed with 4E. I have WotC a 3, though I'd have prefered a 3.5 (out of 5), but there are some really serious blemishes on their record that make me, as a consumer, less keen on purchasing their products, and less impressed with them as a company. Specifically:
1) DDI - This is still, long after it was supposed to be released, completely unfinished. All that we have is Dragon and Dungeon, and whilst it's nice that they're free and all, it's not at all impressive, given Paizo were able to do this without issues. The D&D Rules Compendium has become a poorly-edited non-rules, PC-creation/levelling-info-only compendium, which is weakly useful, at best. The other parts simply aren't there. The tabletop, the character generator, the dungeon builder? No sign of them, and they're what was important to me. I know my brother wanted the 4E PHB on the grounds that he'd be able to play online via. the DDI, and he was shocked to find out that it simply hadn't been implemented, and has absolutely no timeline/date for it's implementation. This brings me to my second issue.
2) The GSL - Extremely unfriendly, basically a lawyer's wet dream, and seems designed to intentionally "put off" major companies (and has been successful in doing so) from producing officially 4E-compatible material. It also doesn't allow for any software products, which ties in with the first problem - WotC is failing to provide software solutions, whilst simultaneously blocking others from providing them. This is a highly unsatisfactory situation. Unsatisfactory to WotC too, I'm sure, but there are ways out of it, and they're unwilling to take them.
3) Product quality - Outside of the "holy trinity", I've been unimpressed with product quality. KotS seems poorly written, is in a format that doesn't seem very helpful (the flimsy double-folder format), and the adventure itself is on the thinnest paper in gaming history, and smudges extremely easily. The character record sheets are simply a rip-off, and unworthy of WotC. Whilst it's very easy to say "Oh just print them out!", clearly someone who is buying the record sheets doesn't want to do that for whatever reason. That's not an excuse to rip them off! I'm concerned that we'll continue to see cheap, low-quality-seeming products like these. I'm also unimpressed that they seem to have released with quite SO many rather serious errata in the PHB and DMG. I like errata, especially in a "tightly-engineered" system like 4E, and I'd rather have them than not, but I'd also rather have waited a month or two more and gotten books with the corrections already in.
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I posted a version of this last night, but I seems to have gotten eaten in a timout....
My main problem with WotC at this point is that I just don't trust a darn thing they say anymore.
3.5 errata? Yeah, we know we've been bad and have been misusing the FAQ, but we're going to fix it all, I swear!. There will be a huge errata push... Good news guys, its a year later, we've release a whopping 3 new pieces of errata, and Complete Champion errata will be published in just a week! Oh, now it's 6 months later (again) and 4e is out, so 3.5 errata, even though we promised it and said it was already done, that won't happen now. And don't bother waiting for the Complete Psionics we promised, either. Oh, and it won't upset anyone if we take that 3.5 errata down, right?
Dungeon and Dragon Magazines? Yeah, we'll cancel them, but we'll give you an even better, completely interactive and immersive online experience! We'll just integrate this Gleemax thing and... ++++CARRIER LOST++++
4e GSL? To help out our loyal 3pps who helped make 3e a success, we will offer it to them before the 4e launch for a small cost. On second thought, we'll just publish the GSL at the time of the 4e release. Hold that, we'll wait a couple of weeks after the 4e launch so we can include psionics in it. No, wait, hold that, scratch the psionics.
Sorry guys, you have the credibility of a politician at this point; I'll believe it when I see it, no sooner. That drops you guys down to a 2.
My main problem with WotC at this point is that I just don't trust a darn thing they say anymore.
3.5 errata? Yeah, we know we've been bad and have been misusing the FAQ, but we're going to fix it all, I swear!. There will be a huge errata push... Good news guys, its a year later, we've release a whopping 3 new pieces of errata, and Complete Champion errata will be published in just a week! Oh, now it's 6 months later (again) and 4e is out, so 3.5 errata, even though we promised it and said it was already done, that won't happen now. And don't bother waiting for the Complete Psionics we promised, either. Oh, and it won't upset anyone if we take that 3.5 errata down, right?
Dungeon and Dragon Magazines? Yeah, we'll cancel them, but we'll give you an even better, completely interactive and immersive online experience! We'll just integrate this Gleemax thing and... ++++CARRIER LOST++++
4e GSL? To help out our loyal 3pps who helped make 3e a success, we will offer it to them before the 4e launch for a small cost. On second thought, we'll just publish the GSL at the time of the 4e release. Hold that, we'll wait a couple of weeks after the 4e launch so we can include psionics in it. No, wait, hold that, scratch the psionics.
Sorry guys, you have the credibility of a politician at this point; I'll believe it when I see it, no sooner. That drops you guys down to a 2.
JRRNeiklot
First Post
Didn't seem like a personal attack to me. Saying Acme Roadrunner Explosives sucks does not mean that Wyle E. Coyote, the CEO sucks. The Atlanta Braves can have a crappy team, while still having John Smoltz, a damn good player on their roster.
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
I would agree with this as I would have rated WotC much higher in previous years than the 2 I gave them. The launch of 4e and everything that rippled from it has really diminished my view of WotC, not that my criticism is limited to issues regarding just 4e.
1) Ending of Dragon and Dungeon as magazines
2) GSL
3) Failure to deliver on the online side
4) Clumsy 4e marketing
5) Project creep in 3.5 leading to a lot more than the fixing of a few core issues
6) 4e itself, which I think would have been better done as a different game or subsystem within a broader D&D game
Had even half of those issues broken in my preferred direction, I'd be quite content to rate 4e much higher. But 2-4 weigh particularly heavy on my opinion of WotC as a company as a whole. Failure to live up to promises or even internally set expectations coupled with tin-ear marketing and licensing just don't speak well for the company.
Alaxk Knight of Galt
First Post
I voted 5 / 6
Reasons
Magic the Gathering
This is a great product with many play styles. While I've shifted away from it in recent years, the product has been entertaining me from 1995 onward. I still get a kick out of seeing new cards and sets.
Dungeons and Dragons
Another wonderful product. 3rd Edition was a great evolution of the game. 4th has been a blast thus far.
OGL
Huge plus for me. Not only did it catapult new talent into the industry, but it allowed for very innovated games like Mutants and Masterminds. Total win for WotC as a company. I have yet to see what the new GSL will do, so I can hardly hold it against WotC.
DnD Minis
I am of mixed opinion about this product. In theory, I really like it. However, WotC desire to make it a collectible game along the lines of Magic the Gathering instead of offering individual minis like Warhammer is a major issue. I don't want to buy cases of mini's to get the few goblins I want as a DM and nor do I want to buy that amount to get the PC model I want. On the flip side, I'm not good at painting, so having pre-painted minis is really nice.
Reasons
Magic the Gathering
This is a great product with many play styles. While I've shifted away from it in recent years, the product has been entertaining me from 1995 onward. I still get a kick out of seeing new cards and sets.
Dungeons and Dragons
Another wonderful product. 3rd Edition was a great evolution of the game. 4th has been a blast thus far.
OGL
Huge plus for me. Not only did it catapult new talent into the industry, but it allowed for very innovated games like Mutants and Masterminds. Total win for WotC as a company. I have yet to see what the new GSL will do, so I can hardly hold it against WotC.
DnD Minis
I am of mixed opinion about this product. In theory, I really like it. However, WotC desire to make it a collectible game along the lines of Magic the Gathering instead of offering individual minis like Warhammer is a major issue. I don't want to buy cases of mini's to get the few goblins I want as a DM and nor do I want to buy that amount to get the PC model I want. On the flip side, I'm not good at painting, so having pre-painted minis is really nice.
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