Considering Heroic Paths

[keterys]

Do we know something about how spellscars work?

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

Do we know something about how spellscars work?

They're multiclass-only classes in the FR Player's Guide. That's basically all we know so far.

By the way, I'm the one Nivenus mentioned doing a race-specific version of this; real-life events have come up kind of suddenly and prevented me from working on them much, but you can take a look at the thread and see if you get any ideas.

 

[Crashy75]

Sounds good to me!
Hmm 1st, 4th, 8th, 10th would match the multiclass feats and give you a solid baseline for balance. Ie

Cleric (whether multiclass or not)
1st: Gain skill training in a cleric class skill and healing word 1/day. -OR-
1st: Gain a 1st level at-will attack power.

That's a good start. I think it should be a little more aggressive than this however. I was thinking something like healing word (+) 1/encounter or a first level at-will. Either way, they should get the skill (religion unless they already have it in this case.) Also, they should qualify as a cleric for the purposes of feats/paragon classes.

4th: Gain an additional 3rd level encounter power "slot". You may retrain the power within this slot, but it may not be replaced with a higher level power. (Insert appropriate language from Novice Power multiclass feat)

Ok, so they gain an additional power? Works for me. I would word it 1st or 3rd level however. I think many would prefer the 1st level powers.

8th: Gain an additional 6th level utility power that may be retrained as usual. (Multiclass info from feat)
10th: Gain an additional 9th level daily power that may be retrained, but not replaced. (Multiclass info)

Sounds great.

Then your 'Freedom Fighter' or whatever can pretty easily match the balance there.

? I think I missed something.

 

[keterys]

That's a good start. I think it should be a little more aggressive than this however. I was thinking something like healing word (+) 1/encounter or a first level at-will. Either way, they should get the skill (religion unless they already have it in this case.) Also, they should qualify as a cleric for the purposes of feats/paragon classes.

So, my next post after that one said that I thought it actually should be the at-will plus either the multiclass package -or-... something. The 'or something' is the reason I didn't post it that way originally, cause I didn't feel like thinking up a package for each base class

Ok, so they gain an additional power? Works for me. I would word it 1st or 3rd level however. I think many would prefer the 1st level powers.

You can always take a lower level power in a slot. Standard rule.

? I think I missed something.

This started because Plane Sailing read a "Freedom Fighter" Paragon Path and thought it should show up as a Heroic... so, you just balance the heroic calling freedom fighter against that power level, which seems like it should be viable and interesting.

Same thing for racial packages.

 

[Kirnon_Bhale]

I see 4e working like this (VERY roughly)

Heroic - Multiclass as alternate class options

Paragon - Paths as alternate class options

Epic - Destinies as alternate class options

So if you want to give alternate options at heroic tier you should look to doing via the Multiclassing route. Same at the various other tiers.

 

[Quickleaf]

I'm wondering about the possibility of creating some 'Heroic Paths', which are like unto 'Paragon Paths' but can be taken at Heroic levels rather than Paragon levels.

While this is a great idea, I thought the original question was about "Freedom Fighter" being an uncomfortable fit at Paragon tier? How does creating a heroic calling for each class/race resolve this?

Of course, creating a slew of heroic callings for each class would open up a dilemma - how do you decide what is a paragon path vs. a heroic calling?

My thinking is that regional class variants could be covered by heroic calling, though this would be setting specific - this could be one way to suggest certain classes are dominant in different regions. However, the fighter "kensei" paragon path seems to muddy the waters.

Alternately, there could be heroic callings for Halfling Rogue, Halfling Ranger, Halfling Wizard, and so on. More like what WotC hinted at, and what Warlords of the Accordlands does. A lot of work, and some class/race combos might be a stretch.

Alternately, there could be heroic callings according to what motivates you to go adventuring. I kind of like that idea. So, there'd be a heroic calling of "Fame/Recognition", "Revenge", "Duty" and so forth.

As a replacement for multi-class feats it seems like a good house rule, but how would a character who wanted to multi-class at paragon level work?

 

[keterys]

As a replacement for multi-class feats it seems like a good house rule, but how would a character who wanted to multi-class at paragon level work?

The same way it works for a character at epic who wants to change their paragon path?

The race options solves the problem of people wanting races to matter more and the multiclass options let you solve the multiclass angle for people wanting that to be easier... and you have the option of "Freedom Fighter" or "Adventuring Archaelogist" or "Devoted Knight" or whatever for early on in your career when you actually do it, instead of showing up after you're already jetsetting around the planes and such.

It's useful to have the variety of options, though, because some people won't want to be more complex or have to multiclass or have to focus on race.

 

[Crashy75]

While this is a great idea, I thought the original question was about "Freedom Fighter" being an uncomfortable fit at Paragon tier? How does creating a heroic calling for each class/race resolve this?

I don't think it does, but really, who cares. It's a good idea for m/c. You can always call yourself a freedom fighter no matter what class you are. Others will call you a terrorist and that's ok.

Of course, creating a slew of heroic callings for each class would open up a dilemma - how do you decide what is a paragon path vs. a heroic calling?

I think the idea is to just focus on base classes and racial "paragon" classes to use a 3e term.

My thinking is that regional class variants could be covered by heroic calling, though this would be setting specific - this could be one way to suggest certain classes are dominant in different regions. However, the fighter "kensei" paragon path seems to muddy the waters.

That's an idea. I think that could be handled with feats and rp, but that's could really fit for some campaigns. Also, in the FR preview there were some regional/backgrounds that gave bonuses based on where you came from. That would work for this as well.

Alternately, there could be heroic callings for Halfling Rogue, Halfling Ranger, Halfling Wizard, and so on. More like what WotC hinted at, and what Warlords of the Accordlands does. A lot of work, and some class/race combos might be a stretch.

Hmmm, you could do that.

Alternately, there could be heroic callings according to what motivates you to go adventuring. I kind of like that idea. So, there'd be a heroic calling of "Fame/Recognition", "Revenge", "Duty" and so forth.

That really seems like a RP thing to me but there's no reason you couldn't do that if you wanted.

As a replacement for multi-class feats it seems like a good house rule, but how would a character who wanted to multi-class at paragon level work?

Asked and answered. It's worth noting that this option opens more doors for paragon classes. This would be a more viable option now.