Pathfinder 1E D&D4 and Pathfinder can coexist

* Paizo is capable of producing full color glossy books, just like WOTC. This is the first time I can remember that one of the competitors for D&D's markey could match the industry leader (whether WOTC or TSR) in terms of presentation. No black & white interiors for Paizo.
You weren't a big fan of third party publishers previously, then? Because Goodman Games has done it for their convention modules, Green Ronin does it for Mutants & Masterminds, heck, even Human Head did it for Redhurst Academy of Magic.

Yes, the books do look nice, but they are by no means a first of their kind phenomenon.
 

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Much like AD&D, AD&D 2E, and 3.X before it, however, 4E has no real need for concern by moving away from its pre-existing support structure. They understand, just as TSR did, that there will always be people who are unwilling to reinvest in a new or expanded game. Every time D&D has changed, it has left behind some of the old players and drawn in new ones. My father quit D&D when 2E came out; he simply didn't feel the need to relearn the game, and began to redevelop his interest in music as a hobby. My longest-running gaming group, for the most part, passed on 3E and stayed with the volumes of books they had for second edition. Many of the people in my local area refused to move on to 3.5, as they considered it a tacky ploy to grab more cash. Reading these boards, there are people who never moved to advanced D&D at all and preferred basic. This kind of attrition is expected.

The other side of this is that the new edition occasionally brings the jaded ex-fan back into the fold. My wife and I haven't played D&D in 3 years; we just got fed up with what we perceived as the quirkiness of third edition. 4E has our interest back up again, based on the changes to the mechanics. Some of my previous 3.X gaming group were 1st and 2nd edition players who had moved on to GURPS, CoC, or WEG and found themselves intrigued by 3rd edition.

I guess my roundabout point is, you win some and you lose some. In any hobby with changing standards, this is true. If D&D were so easily prone to failure based solely on reinventing itself, it would have died in the eighties.

Difference is, unlike ODD, ADD, 1st, 2nd.....I have alot more options now in 3.X via 3rd party products. ALOT more. A new product that lets me use all my old stuff fairly easily instead of getting on the treadmill of new poducts again? Hell yes.

I dont think quite they expect the amount of attrition their going to get this cycle as opposed to all the old ones.
 

That is what I thought. However, I have concern after seeing how the classes are increased in power and keep hearing
a) how it was done to keep them on par with classes with later book (which I don't use and my preference would have been to bring down the spellcasters).

b) pathfinder adventures are much harder on the core classes, because they are designed to take account the power creep from WOTC supplements. I don't know if this is true or not as I don't run adventure paths, but I have seen plenty of discussion on this issue.

Assuming that those two items are true, the easiest way to use the standard 3.5 rules with next year's adventure path modules would be to adjust the PC level up by one or two levels. A 1st level adventure is a 3rd level adventure. A 15th level adventure is a 17th level adventure. Should be easy.
 

I will be playing more 4E because it's new and cool, but Pathfinder will also have a place at my table.

Both are good games and I'm sure both have their flaws but I think we can all agree that there is much fun to be had no matter which you chose to play on a given night. Anyone who says they cannot have fun playing either one of these games has totally missed the point of RPing, IMO.
 

Paizo, I think, has one BIG thing going for them, and that's a very strong fanbase. You can see it here at EN World - Paizo has cultivated those that buy their products into a pretty strong force through business smarts and the ability to not piss off their customers. I've seen it said around here for those that have yet to play Pathfinder that Paizo can do no wrong, and I think this very ideal fanbase can work strongly in their favor.
 
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I ran the alpha at a con a couple weekends ago, and I used it as printed with no modifications. It went very well. It was definitely smoother than 3.5.

Players particularly enjoyed the way turning works and the guy who was playing the fighter loved the new Cleave and Great Cleave.

I *really* like the Cleave change. I also like what they did to the disjunction spell. I'm not yet sold on the new turn mechanic, but I'm trying to keep an open mind.

That is what I thought. However, I have concern after seeing how the classes are increased in power and keep hearing
a) how it was done to keep them on par with classes from WOTC later books (which I don't use and my preference would have been to bring down the spellcasters).

b) pathfinder adventures are much harder on the core classes, because they are designed to take account the power creep from WOTC supplements. I don't know if this is true or not as I don't run adventure paths, but I have seen plenty of discussion on this issue.

The new core classes are a bit stronger, but I'm not sure it's significant enough to be concerned with it. Of course, I'm also not making any final judgements now since we're still in Beta. I am curious to see how the next few months of playtesting affect the final product.

The real concern I have is rules mastery. I know the core 3.5 rules pretty well, and I will lose some of that rules mastery if I were to switch completely to Pathfinder. That's why I hope they provide an "at-a-glace" summary of what the rules changes are.
 

I'm seeing this type of thing happen in a lot of places anymore, not just game forums... The idea of you have to choose a side, and you either support everything that side says, or you risk letting the other side "win" has seemed to become dominant...

I have my own ideas as to some of the causes, but I think it's silly, and overall I'm with you in that I'm sad to see the idea infect the RGP "community."

I know exactly where the "You're either with us or against us" mentality came from. The quote is the clue :) Which is all I will say about that as politics are not allowed here at ENWorld.
 

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